View Poll Results: You can't spend your way out of a recession

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  • Agree, you can't (generally)

    42 44.68%
  • Disagree, you can (generally)

    52 55.32%
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Thread: You can't spend your way out of a recession

  1. #71
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    China suggests you are dead wrong. They went from a significant GDP decline and high unemployment to projected 11% growth largely due to massive infrastructure spending. While this is likely creating a valuation bubble, that's another topic.
    That's mostly because China had the surplus to do exactly that. They had savings. The U.S. didn't. That's the problem.
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  2. #72
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Okay genius, tell me, you are stating that government spending for WWII had no impact upon the economy...
    This is a reading comprehension failure on your part -- I said no such thing.

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  3. #73
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Okay genius, tell me, you are stating that government spending for WWII had no impact upon the economy. Furthermore, you are also stating that the rebirth of the German economy prior to WWII was not based on government spending. Furthermore, you are explicitly arguing that China's emergence from its recession had nothing to do with the large stimulus China's government passed.

    You can run away now.
    Germany was a boom economy that would have succumbed to a bust had it had enough time to run its course. China will be the same way. The US during WWII did not have a growing economy. Sure, you may see GDP growing and economic indicators being great for the period, but it sucked to live through that. People were dying and goods were rationed. I wouldn't exactly point out war as a good example of how to grow your economy.

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  4. #74
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    BTW...there IS no "short term deficit". They keep raising the debt ceiling and all this deficit spending is being tacked onto the national debt. Its the equivalent of rolling your car and credit card payments into a homeloan...instead of hurting for a few years you now are stuck paying on them for 30 years.
    By "short-term deficit," I was referring to the components of the deficit that are necessary to address the recession. Those aren't really so worrisome, because they're short-term problems. The "long-term deficit" - the expenses that we'll incur every single year (e.g. entitlement spending) is much more worrisome, and we need to take action to get that spending under control.
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  5. #75
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    BTW...I dont know you so I wont ASSUME you are unemployed, underemployed, or yet another crippled and dependent pet waiting for the government to bail them out.
    Swell. And I won't ASSUME that you're a teabagging, buck-tooth redneck who molests your underage sister.

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack
    But the tragic reality is that it is the have nots...the failures...those that havent prepared for the present let alone the future, those that wouldnt have a clue as to how to create income that are leading the charge for higher taxes on the wealthy to pay for the crippled and dependent pets. Thats a little scary. Nah...scratch that..its downright idiotic.
    Your assessment of the people who advocate for such ideas is completely irrelevant to whether or not they are good policy.
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  6. #76
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Germany was a boom economy that would have succumbed to a bust had it had enough time to run its course. China will be the same way. The US during WWII did not have a growing economy. Sure, you may see GDP growing and economic indicators being great for the period, but it sucked to live through that. People were dying and goods were rationed. I wouldn't exactly point out war as a good example of how to grow your economy.
    It wasn't during the war that mattered, it was the aftermath that made America a world power. We had factories geared up for war-time production, staffed with experienced workers who could easily be translated over to civilian goods. We had companies who were used to making the absolute best-quality merchandise for the war effort, which made us a world-leader in many technologies and consumer goods. Unlike most of Europe, we didn't have to rebuild, which gave us a leg-up on the competition. We took it and ran with it for years before we eventually squandered that superiority.

    The only way to do it again is to have a massive, world-encompassing, publically supported war. Bush tried to do it. He failed.
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  7. #77
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    I don't think necessarily "we" speculated ourselves into it. Clinton deregulated the financial sector and let the crooks run the show. It isn't like nobody saw this coming, I posted about it regularly a decade ago or so, but people get greedy and when it looks like someone is giving something away for nothing, they buy into it no matter how shady it looks. Lots of people in the financial sector made lots of money and are now living the good life on a beach somewhere. The bottom had to fall out because it was utterly unsustainable. You can't be giving things to people who demonstrably can't afford it, just because they want it.



    The problem is, the American people don't want to resolve the problem, they just want to go back to the way it was before the bottom fell out and the politicians know that actually trying to solve the problem would get them thrown out of office. Bush knew it, Obama knows it. The American people don't want financial stability, they want to go back to being able to buy things they don't need and can't afford with money they don't have. Americans have lived in a financial fantasy land for a long, long time, anyone who suggests we need to live within our means is going to get the boot.
    Not to put too fine a brush on things...but given that boldened line from your comment...how is that WE didnt speculate ourselves into it?

    The fix is pretty much right along the lines you are talking about...we need to tighten up the belts...take our beatings like a man (we earned em), and then dust ourselves off and stand up again. And we do that by NOT being saddled by an out of control federal government and ridiculous debt spending.

  8. #78
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Swell. And I won't ASSUME that you're a teabagging, buck-tooth redneck who molests your underage sister.



    Your assessment of the people who advocate for such ideas is completely irrelevant to whether or not they are good policy.
    Thats a correct assumption... :-)

    Oh...I think it is ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL to examine who endorses what ideas. People with a proven track record of failure shouldnt be given control of the economy. That includes the crippled and dependent pets that the democrats pander to and BOTH major political parties. None of them deserve reelection. They are ALL complicit in this 13-15 trillion dollar federal debt.

  9. #79
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    By "short-term deficit," I was referring to the components of the deficit that are necessary to address the recession. Those aren't really so worrisome, because they're short-term problems. The "long-term deficit" - the expenses that we'll incur every single year (e.g. entitlement spending) is much more worrisome, and we need to take action to get that spending under control.
    What makes you think there is a difference? hell we are just as well off giving away free money and services as we are giving away money in a stimulus plan that doesnt create revenue producing jobs. Giving money to states to pay state employees is a greater waste than just buying everyone in the country a new car. Hell at least then you would have something to show for it.

  10. #80
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    It wasn't during the war that mattered, it was the aftermath that made America a world power. We had factories geared up for war-time production, staffed with experienced workers who could easily be translated over to civilian goods. We had companies who were used to making the absolute best-quality merchandise for the war effort, which made us a world-leader in many technologies and consumer goods. Unlike most of Europe, we didn't have to rebuild, which gave us a leg-up on the competition. We took it and ran with it for years before we eventually squandered that superiority.

    The only way to do it again is to have a massive, world-encompassing, publically supported war. Bush tried to do it. He failed.
    That's basically why we emerged victorious. We didn't have to rebuild. We were already a world economic power before then, but WWII solidified us as the economic power. Still though, it's not a good plan to get us economic strength. We waste time that we could spend increasing production instead being used for destruction.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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