View Poll Results: You can't spend your way out of a recession

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  • Agree, you can't (generally)

    42 44.68%
  • Disagree, you can (generally)

    52 55.32%
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Thread: You can't spend your way out of a recession

  1. #141
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Do you? The broken window creates work for the window man, the crowd says, while they forget about what the man would have spent money on except for the fact that he now has to spend money to break that broken window. It means you can't just point to government taking money out of your pocket and looking at what they spend and all the good it creates without taking into the effect the negative consequences of the theft.
    So why the hell were you talking about inflation?

    And the fallacy is just half-ass as the assertion it's trying to dispute because it does not include the fact that the man might just have put his money under his mattress (there's no law that says he has to spend it) and then there's no job created at all. In a recession, that is usually the case: people pull back on their spending and investment because they are unsure of what the demand will be, what is going to be profitable etc.

  2. #142
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    What is the cause of systemic failures in the marketplace?
    Systemic failures in governmental leadership that allow them to interfere with the marketplace.
    Thank you

  3. #143
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    How much money was used to employ all those people who were producing nothing of wealth?
    $41.50 was the average monthly wage of a new deal worker in 1934; i'll go out on a limb and assume you can do the math

    Jobs exist because they produce things that people want. Government jobs do not have to do this. The nation was made effectively poorer because of those government jobs.
    three-fourths of the money was spent on infrastructure projects. you know, things like the blue ridge parkway, TVA, courthouses and other government facilities (most still in use today). what a blight on America wrought by these public works programs

    Furthermore, what jobs were not created because government was using all of that money?
    any making less than $41.50 per month. since that was a reduced wage to incentivize public works employees to upgrade into private sector jobs as they became available, it appears there would have been little loss of private sector employment

    This doesn't even take into account all that the government did to restrict employers on how they could employ people.
    i have no idea what you were trying to say there and would be willing to bet you don't either
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  4. #144
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    So why the hell were you talking about inflation?

    And the fallacy is just half-ass as the assertion it's trying to dispute because it does not include the fact that the man might just have put his money under his mattress (there's no law that says he has to spend it) and then there's no job created at all. In a recession, that is usually the case: people pull back on their spending and investment because they are unsure of what the demand will be, what is going to be profitable etc.
    What happens when someone puts their money under a mattress? Prices fall. People will buy more. Maybe jobs are created?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  5. #145
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    $41.50 was the average monthly wage of a new deal worker in 1934; i'll go out on a limb and assume you can do the math
    Compared to what was the average salary in 1929?

    three-fourths of the money was spent on infrastructure projects. you know, things like the blue ridge parkway, TVA, courthouses and other government facilities (most still in use today). what a blight on America wrought by these public works programs
    But we will never know if the money was better spent on these projects or on producing consumer goods. You can never know unless you leave it up to the market. And yes, the private sector can and has built roads.

    The closest example I can find of private companies building roads.

    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turnpike_trusts_in_the_United_Kingdom]Turnpike trusts in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    any making less than $41.50 per month. since that was a reduced wage to incentivize public works employees to upgrade into private sector jobs as they became available, it appears there would have been little loss of private sector employment
    You're not taking some things into account. We're these things easier? More secure? Who would take the risk of a private sector job when this secure government job is there for you?

    i have no idea what you were trying to say there and would be willing to bet you don't either
    There were rules put into about working hours and even a kind of minimum wage that meant most people had to go underemployed because they weren't worth those hourly wages that were being forced upon them. The thought of the day was that high wages brought prosperity and not the other way around. It was a catastrophe for unemployment.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  6. #146
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    What happens when someone puts their money under a mattress? Prices fall. People will buy more. Maybe jobs are created?
    Why would I buy something today when I can expect to buy them for less tomorrow? Why would I produce something today when I can expect to produce them for less tomorrow and sell for lesser the next day?

  7. #147
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    $41.50 was the average monthly wage of a new deal worker in 1934; i'll go out on a limb and assume you can do the math
    It seems you assumed too much.

  8. #148
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    Why would I buy something today when I can expect to buy them for less tomorrow? Why would I produce something today when I can expect to produce them for less tomorrow and sell for lesser the next day?
    Because all you care about is how much you can get for your goods now. Storing goods for until that money comes into circulation means you have to take into account the price of storage.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  9. #149
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Let me tell you, these are the only two paragraphs I read. And let me tell you, that definition of a recession is WORTHLESS! Why is it worthless? Because demand doesn't matter. The problem occurs when production does not keep up with your population. That's the problem. So the proper question is not how do you get demand back, but the question rather is how do you get production moving again. And that's simple. Get badly allocated resources from failing companies (let them fail) and so let those resources naturally get diverted into those companies that are succeeding (investing, so people need more of their own money!).

    So please, don't talk down to me. You only do yourself a disservice with a long diatribe like that.
    Aggregate demand matters because it controls equilibrium price level and quantity which directly affects consumer demand.

    I encourage you to go back and read my post. I posted something that you would learn in a introduction econ course. It's textbook material, really.

    I really hope you brush up on your knowledge of the macroeconomics, and how the economy works. It really is interesting stuff.
    "All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language...No man is an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee." - John Donne

  10. #150
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    I encourage you to go back and read my post. I posted something that you would learn in a introduction econ course. It's textbook material, really.

    I really hope you brush up on your knowledge of the macroeconomics, and how the economy works. It really is interesting stuff.
    Quit talking down to me. It really does you a disservice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanitas View Post
    Aggregate demand matters because it controls equilibrium price level and quantity which directly affects consumer demand.
    Hmm, aggregate demand directly affects consumer demand? Demand affects demand?! Genius!

    What you do when you aggregate is ignore the fact that consumption is still up in certain areas and down in others during a recession. Just because aggregate demand has fallen does not mean that all demand has fallen. Maybe it's you who should do some reading on economics. It really is interesting stuff.

    Economics in One Lesson by Henry Hazlitt. You should read it. It's free online.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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