View Poll Results: You can't spend your way out of a recession

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  • Agree, you can't (generally)

    42 44.68%
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Thread: You can't spend your way out of a recession

  1. #131
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanitas View Post
    Speaking with regards to the macroeconomy, a recession is a decrease in the aggregate demand. There are two ways to increase aggregate demand and get it back to potential output, which are fiscal policy and monetary policy.

    So, to answer your question... You most definitely CAN spend your way out of a recession.
    Let me tell you, these are the only two paragraphs I read. And let me tell you, that definition of a recession is WORTHLESS! Why is it worthless? Because demand doesn't matter. The problem occurs when production does not keep up with your population. That's the problem. So the proper question is not how do you get demand back, but the question rather is how do you get production moving again. And that's simple. Get badly allocated resources from failing companies (let them fail) and so let those resources naturally get diverted into those companies that are succeeding (investing, so people need more of their own money!).

    So please, don't talk down to me. You only do yourself a disservice with a long diatribe like that.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  2. #132
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Did you not read scarecrow's quote about the Broken Window Fallacy?
    And your point is...

  3. #133
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    And your point is...
    A stimulus cannot add jobs to the economy.

    Well, I should be clear. It can only create more jobs than it destroys if it funds those jobs with inflation, and in that case those jobs aren't going to be very worthwhile and the inflation will destroy your lending institutions.
    Last edited by phattonez; 02-25-10 at 11:57 PM.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  4. #134
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    A stimulus cannot add jobs to the economy.
    That would depend on the "stimulus". A tax break is less certain of "add[ing] jobs to the economy". A "stimulus" that is a new project is certain to "add jobs to the economy".

  5. #135
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    That would depend on the "stimulus". A tax break is less certain of "add[ing] jobs to the economy". A "stimulus" that is a new project is certain to "add jobs to the economy".
    Stimulus takes jobs away from the private sector because it takes money away from the private sector and spends it in less efficient ways. Tax cuts are giving money back to the private sector to spend in efficient ways.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  6. #136
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    A stimulus cannot add jobs to the economy.

    Well, I should be clear. It can only create more jobs than it destroys if it funds those jobs with inflation, and in that case those jobs aren't going to be very worthwhile and the inflation will destroy your lending institutions.
    You are talking bull****. What exactly does "funds those jobs with inflation" means? And how does having a job is not "very worthwhile" just because there is higher inflation? And have you ever read of the 70's stagflation?


    You don't even have an idea of what the Broken Window Fallacy was attempting to say, do you?

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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Stimulus takes jobs away from the private sector because it takes money away from the private sector and spends it in less efficient ways. Tax cuts are giving money back to the private sector to spend in efficient ways.
    Yeah, yeah, and they live happily ever after...

  8. #138
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    You are talking bull****. What exactly does "funds those jobs with inflation" means? And how does having a job is not "very worthwhile" just because there is higher inflation? And have you ever read of the 70's stagflation?


    You don't even have an idea of what the Broken Window Fallacy was attempting to say, do you?
    Do you? The broken window creates work for the window man, the crowd says, while they forget about what the man would have spent money on except for the fact that he now has to spend money to break that broken window. It means you can't just point to government taking money out of your pocket and looking at what they spend and all the good it creates without taking into the effect the negative consequences of the theft.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  9. #139
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Stimulus takes jobs away from the private sector because it takes money away from the private sector and spends it in less efficient ways. Tax cuts are giving money back to the private sector to spend in efficient ways.
    at the end of 1934 over 20 million people were employed thru the new deal program; one out of six citizens
    that program allowed the nation to emerge from the notso great depression

    your presentation that the private sector loses jobs when government jobs are created is absolutely bogus
    if the private sector finds the hire of an employee to be profitable then it will hire/retain the employee. if not, it won't
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  10. #140
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    at the end of 1934 over 20 million people were employed thru the new deal program; one out of six citizens
    that program allowed the nation to emerge from the notso great depression

    your presentation that the private sector loses jobs when government jobs are created is absolutely bogus
    if the private sector finds the hire of an employee to be profitable then it will hire/retain the employee. if not, it won't
    How much money was used to employ all those people who were producing nothing of wealth? Jobs exist because they produce things that people want. Government jobs do not have to do this. The nation was made effectively poorer because of those government jobs. Furthermore, what jobs were not created because government was using all of that money?

    This doesn't even take into account all that the government did to restrict employers on how they could employ people.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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