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Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

Was Reagan a fiscal-small government conservative?

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liblady said:
really? you're forgetting that right after reagan left office bush raised taxes, out of necessity.
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Horsepucky. It was a choice.
Just like the dems increasing spending after promising to decrease it was a choice.
 
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liblady said:
really? you're forgetting that right after reagan left office bush raised taxes, out of necessity.
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BS, Bush raised taxes in 1990 after reaching an agreement with Democrats to cut spending $2 for each dollar in spending cuts. Guess what, we got the tax increase, the economy tanked and no spending cuts. GHW Bush with those tax increases added 1.4 trillion to the debt. lesson here never compromise with a liberal.
 
Conservative said:
BS, Bush raised taxes in 1990 after reaching an agreement with Democrats to cut spending $2 for each dollar in spending cuts. Guess what, we got the tax increase, the economy tanked and no spending cuts. GHW Bush with those tax increases added 1.4 trillion to the debt. lesson here never compromise with a liberal.
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Forgot to check this, it was two dollars of spending cuts for each dollar of tax increase. my error. We of course got the tax increases but never the spending cuts.
 
Conservative said:
I have no idea what this chart is supposed to show. I prefer BEA.gov information that shows the doubling of GDP, doubling of Govt. revenue and almost 20 million jobs created after taking over an economy with 20 plus interest rates, double digit inflation, and rising unemployment.
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This chart was copied from the Haritage Foundatrion web sight. Hardly a left wing organization, and it shows that all republicans give us debt and grow thew government more than the democrats do. Every republicans gave us debt, every republican gives us bigger government, every republican gives us inflation, deficits and a need for another financial bale out of fat cats by the government. Republicans cause the country it's financial problems. Obama will be a pypical democrat and give us less debt than a republican would.
 
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All one must do to be thought of as fiscally conservative is to spout some anti-welfare rhetoric. Just express some hostility to welfare mothers, throw in some racial undertones and you'll be an anti-tax crusader, even if spending goes through the roof at your direction.
 
No. Reagan was a typical borrow and spend Republican. He oversaw the final death of the American dream where the real wages of ordinary Americans started to stagnate even though there was an increase in productivity.

One should not forget the straight criminality of the Reagan administration either. It is beyond my comprehension how you can be labelled a national hero if you sell arms to a barbaric theocracy in order to fund Nicaraguan terrorist groups and drug barons.
 
Regicollis said:
No. Reagan was a typical borrow and spend Republican. He oversaw the final death of the American dream where the real wages of ordinary Americans started to stagnate even though there was an increase in productivity.

One should not forget the straight criminality of the Reagan administration either. It is beyond my comprehension how you can be labelled a national hero if you sell arms to a barbaric theocracy in order to fund Nicaraguan terrorist groups and drug barons.
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I posted the Cato Institute analaysis of the Reagan Administration which of course you ignored. Different day same liberal myths.
 
jacksbrat said:
This chart was copied from the Haritage Foundatrion web sight. Hardly a left wing organization, and it shows that all republicans give us debt and grow thew government more than the democrats do. Every republicans gave us debt, every republican gives us bigger government, every republican gives us inflation, deficits and a need for another financial bale out of fat cats by the government. Republicans cause the country it's financial problems. Obama will be a pypical democrat and give us less debt than a republican would.
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My chart had no descriptions on it thus the question. I also posted the Cato Institute full analysis of the Reagan Administration. Obvously you ignored it. Different day, same old liberal myths. You people have zero credibility.
 
Regicollis said:
No. Reagan was a typical borrow and spend Republican. He oversaw the final death of the American dream where the real wages of ordinary Americans started to stagnate even though there was an increase in productivity.

One should not forget the straight criminality of the Reagan administration either. It is beyond my comprehension how you can be labelled a national hero if you sell arms to a barbaric theocracy in order to fund Nicaraguan terrorist groups and drug barons.
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Another uneducated liberal trying to pass themselves off as an intellectual. More wild accusations that are just typical liberal myths from people who cannot stand keeping more of what they earn and having a strong national defense.

Being quite liberal says it all about you. I fully understand why you need people like Obama in the WH and Pelosi and Reid in charge of Congress. Read the Cato Institute analysis of the Reagan years and truly educate yourself. You definitely need to go through Detox from that liberal education you received.
 
Conservative said:
Another uneducated liberal trying to pass themselves off as an intellectual. More wild accusations that are just typical liberal myths from people who cannot stand keeping more of what they earn and having a strong national defense.

Being quite liberal says it all about you. I fully understand why you need people like Obama in the WH and Pelosi and Reid in charge of Congress. Read the Cato Institute analysis of the Reagan years and truly educate yourself. You definitely need to go through Detox from that liberal education you received.
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and yet you offer no specifics to refute the points articulately made against reagan's regime
 
justabubba said:
and yet you offer no specifics to refute the points articulately made against reagan's regime
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I offered a link yesterday to the Cato Analysis of the Reagan Administration. Liberals like you just don't like it when someone refutes your rhetoric thus you ignore it.
 
Conservative said:
I offered a link yesterday to the Cato Analysis of the Reagan Administration. Liberals like you just don't like it when someone refutes your rhetoric thus you ignore it.
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and i can direct you to the whole internet to identify facts in opposition to reagan
the point being is you are unable to articulate any rebuttal against the points illustrating why the reagan regime is not one to be widely admired
instead you point to some neocon think tank article (and yes i say that recognizing wayland cato's family are among my friends). if you have a point to make then offer it. pointing to a web site is insufficient ... that crap won't flush. you will not be allowed to pretend you have a point when you are unable to make one
 
Conservative said:
Another uneducated liberal trying to pass themselves off as an intellectual. More wild accusations that are just typical liberal myths from people who cannot stand keeping more of what they earn and having a strong national defense.
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What about some wild argumentation instead of the wild rantings to counter my wild accusations? ;)

Or do you think declining real wages and support for terrorism abroad are good policies?

Being quite liberal says it all about you. I fully understand why you need people like Obama in the WH and Pelosi and Reid in charge of Congress. Read the Cato Institute analysis of the Reagan years and truly educate yourself. You definitely need to go through Detox from that liberal education you received.
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The Democrats are the lesser evil but nothing more than that.

So the Cato Institute has made an analysis of the Regan regime? And they claim he did good? Wow - I'm as surprised as if the pope had claimed that God exists.
 
justabubba said:
and i can direct you to the whole internet to identify facts in opposition to reagan
the point being is you are unable to articulate any rebuttal against the points illustrating why the reagan regime is not one to be widely admired
instead you point to some neocon think tank article (and yes i say that recognizing wayland cato's family are among my friends). if you have a point to make then offer it. pointing to a web site is insufficient ... that crap won't flush. you will not be allowed to pretend you have a point when you are unable to make one
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The Cato Institute offered an non partisan, unbiased analysis of the Reagan Administration including actual referenced data which of course you do not want to read. Instead you want me to read opinion crap that is one sided and biased.

I lived and worked during the Reagan years and never did better in my life. I kept more of my money and paid down debt thus becoming less dependent on the kind of help you and your liberal friends want to provide.

The point of the Reagan years is this, economic growth doubled, my personal income doubled, jobs were created for almost 20 million people, govt. revenue doubled, pride in free enterprise, capitalism, and entreprenuerial spirit soared. Reagan unleased the power of the American consumer and the results drive liberals crazy. That adds to my enthusiasm over the Reagan years. People started businesses, people elevated themselves instead of waiting for the govt. to do it.

You and your ilk can focus on parts of the 8 years that were negative but in all situations it is like a balance sheet, does the good outweigh the bad or assets exceeding liabilities. I would take the Reagan years in a heartbeat over what we have now and what your ilk is offering. Individual responsibility is a lost trait with liberals as it is always someone else's fault for personal failures. You and your ilk are dinosaurs.
 
Regicollis said:
What about some wild argumentation instead of the wild rantings to counter my wild accusations? ;)

Or do you think declining real wages and support for terrorism abroad are good policies?



The Democrats are the lesser evil but nothing more than that.

So the Cato Institute has made an analysis of the Regan regime? And they claim he did good? Wow - I'm as surprised as if the pope had claimed that God exists.
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My post refutes that as does the Cato Analysis, read the analysis and get actual facts from bea.gov, bls.gov, and the U.S. Treasury data. The Democrats aren't the lessor of two evils as the Democrats promote dependence, not independence. You keeping more of your own money seems to scare you and people like you.
 
Conservative said:
The point of the Reagan years is this, economic growth doubled, my personal income doubled, jobs were created for almost 20 million people, govt. revenue doubled, pride in free enterprise, capitalism, and entreprenuerial spirit soared...
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You can't beat anecdotal evidence ;)
 
Regicollis said:
What about some wild argumentation instead of the wild rantings to counter my wild accusations? ;)

Or do you think declining real wages and support for terrorism abroad are good policies?



The Democrats are the lesser evil but nothing more than that.

So the Cato Institute has made an analysis of the Regan regime? And they claim he did good? Wow - I'm as surprised as if the pope had claimed that God exists.
Click to expand...


My post refutes that as does the Cato Analysis, read the analysis and get actual facts from bea.gov, bls.gov, and the U.S. Treasury data. The Democrats aren't the lessor of two evils as the Democrats promote dependence, not independence. You keeping more of your own money seems to scare you and people like you.
 
Conservative said:
My post refutes that as does the Cato Analysis, read the analysis and get actual facts from bea.gov, bls.gov, and the U.S. Treasury data. The Democrats aren't the lessor of two evils as the Democrats promote dependence, not independence. You keeping more of your own money seems to scare you and people like you.
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Reagan tripled the national debt, had unemployment rates of over 10 % in 1982 and 1983, the average unemployment rate was higher for the Reagan administration than for those of Nixon, Ford and Carter as well as the increase in productivity and job creation was slower.

Furthermore real wages declined during the Regan years, as shown in the graph below, using data from the Bureau of Labour Statistics.

usaaverageweeklywages_ltgry.png


As for "keeping more of your own money", the AMT shifted the tax burden from the rich to the middle class who lost deductions and thus had to pay more taxes.

Add to that the Reagan slashed social programmes, thus making life even harder for those living at the bottom of society. His union-busting severely undermined the only tool working people has ever had for increasing their standards of living.

What a great guy ;)
 
Regicollis said:
Reagan tripled the national debt, had unemployment rates of over 10 % in 1982 and 1983, the average unemployment rate was higher for the Reagan administration than for those of Nixon, Ford and Carter as well as the increase in productivity and job creation was slower.

Furthermore real wages declined during the Regan years, as shown in the graph below, using data from the Bureau of Labour Statistics.

usaaverageweeklywages_ltgry.png


As for "keeping more of your own money", the AMT shifted the tax burden from the rich to the middle class who lost deductions and thus had to pay more taxes.

Add to that the Reagan slashed social programmes, thus making life even harder for those living at the bottom of society. His union-busting severely undermined the only tool working people has ever had for increasing their standards of living.

What a great guy ;)
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Didn't read the analysis I see. Not surprising. Reagan and the Congress added 1.7 trillion to the debt. Obama will add that much this year but you complain about Reagan? You have zero credibility. Ask the American people today whether or not they would take Reagan back and his record and only the loony left would be against that. in fact GW Bush vs. Barack Obama would be a toss up today. Get all the facts before spouting rhetoric because they make you look stupid.

By the way when people get to keep more of their money there is less need for social programs funded by the taxpayer. Instead those are funded by charities which are the intent. You are educationally challenged.
 
Conservative said:
My post refutes that as does the Cato Analysis, read the analysis and get actual facts from bea.gov, bls.gov, and the U.S. Treasury data. The Democrats aren't the lessor of two evils as the Democrats promote dependence, not independence. You keeping more of your own money seems to scare you and people like you.
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Did you notice anything odd about your CATO link?

Like maybe a conflict of interest.
 
winston53660 said:
Did you notice anything odd about your CATO link?

Like maybe a conflict of interest.
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Sure did, it was filled with verifiable facts and the source of those facts, something you and others hate.
 
Conservative said:
Didn't read the analysis I see. Not surprising. Reagan and the Congress added 1.7 trillion to the debt. Obama will add that much this year but you complain about Reagan?
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I've never been a fan of Obama but at least there is a small chance the money will be put to some good use. However spending should be cut - for instance the American tax payer has no benefit from imperial expansion in the Middle East.

You have zero credibility. Ask the American people today whether or not they would take Reagan back and his record and only the loony left would be against that. in fact GW Bush vs. Barack Obama would be a toss up today. Get all the facts before spouting rhetoric because they make you look stupid.
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I got some facts and posted them above. However it seems you haven't noticed them. It might be because I am too stupid to present any fact to a mind as brilliant as yours ;)

By the way when people get to keep more of their money there is less need for social programs funded by the taxpayer.
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Only if you get enough in your tax cut to pay for the services you lost. Some services like public transportation and libraries can only be provided in a meaningful way by the public sector.

Instead those are funded by charities which are the intent.
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The intent of who? Reagan? God? You?

You are educationally challenged.
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The more you insult me, the less you convince me. It seems it is you who have been ideologically challenged, and you don't like it. ;)
 
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Regicollis;1058691840]I've never been a fan of Obama but at least there is a small chance the money will be put to some good use. However spending should be cut - for instance the American tax payer has no benefit from imperial expansion in the Middle East.
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Yet Obama's defense budget is more than Bush's and he kept the Bush secretary of defense. Nothing has changed proving that Bush was right.



I got some facts and posted them above. However it seems you haven't noticed them. It might be because I am too stupid to present any fact to a mind as brilliant as yours ;)
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I don't know you well enough to call you stupid however your posts are forming an opinion that could prove that statement. Your problem is you think with your heart and not your brain which is what most liberals do. Facts always get in the way of your personal opinion so you make yourself look stupid by arguing against the facts.


Only if you get enough in your tax cut to pay for the services you lost. Some services like public transportation and libraries can only be provided in a meaningful way by the public sector.
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You haven't a clue, transportation is funded by the excise taxes you pay on gasoline and other fuels or at least that was the intent before liberals put those taxes on budget and spent them on social programs.

Not sure where you live but I live in TX where our property taxes fund local services just like they do in other parts of the country.

Why don't you tell me what the role of the govt. truly is in your world and what the budget would look like to fund it? Today the Obama budget is 3.8 trillion dollars and 1.6 trillion in deficit.


The intent of who? Reagan? God? You?
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The intent of charities was to take care of those truly in need, not a federal bureaucrat in D.C. Read history for a change.



The more you swear the less you convince me. It seems it is you who have been ideologically challenged, and you don't like it. ;
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You don't want to be called educationally challenged, then post something intelligent for a change instead of liberal myths. Get educated and you won't sound foolish.
 
Conservative said:
Yet Obama's defense budget is more than Bush's and he kept the Bush secretary of defense. Nothing has changed proving that Bush was right.
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Or proving that Obama is as wrong as Bush.

I don't know you well enough to call you stupid however your posts are forming an opinion that could prove that statement. Your problem is you think with your heart and not your brain which is what most liberals do. Facts always get in the way of your personal opinion so you make yourself look stupid by arguing against the facts.
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I get it. You think I'm stupid. But please move on and tell me why you think Reagan was a fiscally good president in spite of his borrow and spend policies. Give me all the good arguments why an excellent economic policy should include things as
  • Declining real wages
  • Tripling of national debt
  • Above average unemployment rates
  • Below average increases in job creation and productivity
  • Tax cuts for the rich paid by the middle class
  • Reduction in social programmes
I'm really exited to learn about the benefits of these things.

You haven't a clue, transportation is funded by the excise taxes you pay on gasoline and other fuels or at least that was the intent before liberals put those taxes on budget and spent them on social programs.

Not sure where you live but I live in TX where our property taxes fund local services just like they do in other parts of the country.
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I was just giving examples. Where I'm from we have a saying that someone can read something like the devil reads the Bible - I think it is quite fitting for you.

Why don't you tell me what the role of the govt. truly is in your world and what the budget would look like to fund it? Today the Obama budget is 3.8 trillion dollars and 1.6 trillion in deficit.
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The prime function of government is to provide the greatest amount of happiness to the greatest amount of people, to uphold peace and security and to provide a decent standard of living for those who cannot do so themselves.

If you want a more balanced budget you could start thinking about the insane military spending.

The intent of charities was to take care of those truly in need, not a federal bureaucrat in D.C. Read history for a change.
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Thank you for enlightening me on what the intent of a charity is - I really didn't know.

However that knowledge doesn't tell me anything about who the "intended" provider of social services should be. History can not tell us that.

You don't want to be called educationally challenged, then post something intelligent for a change instead of liberal myths. Get educated and you won't sound foolish.
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The average intelligence of this thread would definitely be improved if you started to post arguments in favour of your opinions instead of angry rants.;)
 
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