View Poll Results: Was Reagan a fiscal-small government conservative?

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Thread: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

  1. #61
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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Which is what the stimulus did much moreso than Reagan's military spending. You are using a double-standard here.
    Wrong. While both expanded the debt to huge portions, Reagan's ridiculous spending on military was not needed. People here generally have no understanding of the modern economy. I doubt you have little understanding of just how bad interbank lending was. The huge amounts that Obama (and Bush) spent on the financial market was necessary. When banks stop lending to each other to cover daily short falls in reserve requirements out of fear of losing their money, we are in a world of ****. But instead of realizing that, we have morons here mouthing off without a clue about anything.

    Prior to Reagan, we had superiority over the Soviets. Only during the beginning of the Cold War were we really behind.

    In other words, if you think it's necessary, then you can do it and still be a fiscal conservative, but if you personally don't deem it necessary, then no fiscal conservative can do it.
    Explain to me why it is financially conservative to blow the bank on a military that is unnecessary to stop an enemy you already have the capacity to defeat.

    Let's see you try.
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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    You don't count spending like that, because then everyone spends more and no one expets them to spend less in nominal terms. We do have inflation, and we do have wage and cost increases. You must remember that taxes follow the GDP.
    A $100 billion increase over a few years over a starting base of $300 billion is not exactly something to ignore.

    My feeling is that Presidents don't have that much power, and therfore can't influence Congress that much.
    To somewhat of a degree. But presidents can veto bills. I never understood how anyone thought Bush was a fiscal con when he refused to veto his own party's outrageous spending.

    Still, remember that earmarks are less then 1% of the budget. If you actually want to cut spending, you hit the big targets. Medicare/aid, Social and the military. Everything else by comparison is small potatoes.
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  3. #63
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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Wrong. While both expanded the debt to huge portions, Reagan's ridiculous spending on military was not needed.
    You are missing the point. Whether or not you think it is needed is irrelevant to the fact that according to you, if someone thinks that something is needed, then they can pay for it and still be a fiscal conservative. If someone thinks that large military spending is needed, then, whether or not you personally think it is, according to you, that person has every right to increase military spending, and still be a fiscal conservative.


    I think it's batsh*t crazy to say that the stimulus was absolutely necessary. But you think it's necessary, and because of that, you think that you can support it while still being a fiscal conservative. The same logic applies to something which you think is batsh*t crazy to think is necessary.


    For someone who is so obsessed with hypocrisy, you sure have a lot of it.

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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    A $100 billion increase over a few years over a starting base of $300 billion is not exactly something to ignore.
    Still, you don't count spending like that. You don't count number of voters to show that the Democratic party is doing well, you use the percentage of voters. You don't use nominal GDP to present the economic performance of the US, you use the real GDP. In this case, you use government spending as a percentage of GDP. If the government spending goes down in percentage then you cut spending, if it increases then you increase spending.

  5. #65
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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    You are missing the point.
    No it's not.

    Whether or not you think it is needed is irrelevant to the fact that according to you
    According to me? I asked you to show me how breaking the bank to increase a military that could already stop the Soviets was fiscally conservative. I see you have utterly, 100%, with flying flags, FAILED TO DO SO.

    if someone thinks that something is needed, then they can pay for it and still be a fiscal conservative.
    Wrong again! By all measures other then numbers, we could have stopped the Soviets before Reagan got into office. I seriously doubt you even understand just how close we came to collapse and what was necessary to get us back from the cliff.

    How is spending money on an unnecessary military the same as spending money to prevent the collapse of the banking sector.

    Wait, You won't answer.

    If someone thinks that large military spending is needed, then, whether or not you personally think it is, according to you, that person has every right to increase military spending, and still be a fiscal conservative.
    So basically, you don't have an actual argument. Where my argument is actually based on facts and what actually existed, you just attempt to attack my person beliefs rather then what my argument actually relies on. Essentially, all you are doing is little more then a veiled personal attack. I've asked you direct questions about the facts and actual arguments where all you do is make veiled attacks on me.

    I think it's batsh*t crazy to say that the stimulus was absolutely necessary. But you think it's necessary, and because of that, you think that you can support it while still being a fiscal conservative. The same logic applies to something which you think is batsh*t crazy to think is necessary.
    Hanging out with Conservative I see, the love of lying is rubbing off on you. I never said that the stimulus was absolutely necessary. I said that a stimulus in theory was a good idea. In fact, I have repetitively stated that the Obama stimulus failed. You lying about what I said doesn't help your argument and in fact casts you as extremely dishonest. Do I think Obama is a fiscal con? No. Do I think Bush was? No.

    For someone who is so obsessed with hypocrisy, you sure have a lot of it.
    Well, if you didn't make up **** about what I said and actually read what I wrote, you'd think otherwise. But it's always easier to pretend what we want people to be rather then actually look to see what they are.

    To be brutally honest, I have far more educated and smarter then most of you. Hell, I talk about money velocity and most of you are scratching your heads as if that's another language. And yet many of you morons attack the fed.

    Look at me. I'm Dav. I lie about what other say because I can't address their points
    Last edited by obvious Child; 02-17-10 at 01:54 AM.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  6. #66
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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    Still, you don't count spending like that.
    To a degree you do.

    You don't count number of voters to show that the Democratic party is doing well, you use the percentage of voters.
    Not quite. Both are useful measures. For instance, if you look at a small sample, you can get very distorted views purely relying upon percentages. Both should be looked at.

    You don't use nominal GDP to present the economic performance of the US, you use the real GDP. In this case, you use government spending as a percentage of GDP. If the government spending goes down in percentage then you cut spending, if it increases then you increase spending.
    True, but inflation was not 25%. But military spending went up by that much.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  7. #67
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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    OC, I think you are very very confused about what my post was addressing. Look at it closer. If you still don't get it I give up.

  8. #68
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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    OC, I think you are very very confused about what my post was addressing. Look at it closer. If you still don't get it I give up.
    Perhaps if you stopped making up in your head what you think people believe and actually addressed arguments, you wouldn't be posting ridiculous crap.

    Saying I think that the stimulus was absolutely necessary despite me saying many times it is a failure and immediately criticizing its various problems does not suggest you actually care what people write and that you have no problem making up fabrications to attack others on.

    I'll leave you to argue with the person who made the arguments you are claiming are wrong: Yourself.

    Money to prevent the collapse of the banking sector =/= money to bolster a military that can already stop our #1 enemy. I seriously doubt you understand just how close we came to financial ruin. Hence why you aren't dealing with the comparisons here. Just attacking my opinion. Do you even know what reserve requirements are? I doubt it.
    Last edited by obvious Child; 02-17-10 at 02:07 AM.
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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    To a degree you do.

    Not quite. Both are useful measures. For instance, if you look at a small sample, you can get very distorted views purely relying upon percentages. Both should be looked at.

    True, but inflation was not 25%. But military spending went up by that much.
    For what? If spending for defence was greater than the inflation and the wage cost, then it will show in the government spending as a percentage of GDP, and it did. Spending went up from 6.2% in 1981 to 7.0% in 1983.

    However you don't use nominal spending, because it's not adjusted for wage growth or inflation.

    BTW: I didn't talk about a samle, when you talked about the elections. I was thinking about the actual election results. Then they don't judge the performance on the number of new voters you get, but they judge it by the percentage of voters you get.

  10. #70
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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    I'm just saying that you're a fiscal conservative when it comes to spending, except for when it comes to spending that you think is needed. And yet you're saying that other people can't be fiscal conservatives if they spend on what they think is needed. Is that concept so hard to understand?


    This has nothing to do with whether Reagan's military spending was warranted, or spending on the finanical crisis. That's not what I was arguing about.

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