View Poll Results: Was Reagan a fiscal-small government conservative?

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Thread: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Is it just because it is easier to complain about the President that we almost never see threads that specifically criticize Congress for the work they do?!!

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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    It bothers us because you haven't made a solid argument in favor of your position; it has nothing to do with partisanship. And asserting things is not the same as proving them - so, you can repeat, "He simply was not fiscally conservative" until the cows come home, but until you offer a reasonable argument in favor of that position I will not accept it.

    You've basically implied that Reagan should have raised taxes or cut defense spending in order to accommodate the rampant domestic spending of the Congress. That is patently absurd I will not agree with it. So, either change your argument so that it is no longer intellectually dishonest, or accept the fact that your assertions are nothing more than your opinion.
    Just give up, these people will stay convinced that they know better than the vast majority of Americans because they saw a big number (deficit) and decided that it says all they need to know, and there is no need to look into what made that number big.

    Ironically, these are many of the same people who insist that Obama's deficits are different, and you have to really look deep into why those are high, and then smart people like them will realize that it's all Bush's fault.

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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Telecaster View Post
    Is it just because it is easier to complain about the President that we almost never see threads that specifically criticize Congress for the work they do?!!
    What some people don't seem to understand is that the Congress has exclusive authority to appropriate funds. The Executive branch cannot spend a dime without the Congress, but apparently the deficit is all Reagan's fault because he didn't veto every single bill that came to his desk. Not like it would have mattered, since Congress has the ultimate authority to override a Presidential veto. But let's not let that little fact get in the way of the chosen narrative: Reagan wasn't a fiscal conservative because he refused to raise taxes or decrease military spending!


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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Just give up, these people will stay convinced that they know better than the vast majority of Americans because they saw a big number (deficit) and decided that it says all they need to know, and there is no need to look into what made that number big.
    It's a common tactic of the left. Just forcefully assert something over and over again and insult anyone who disagrees with you. Do this until your opponent gets tired of debating and then act like you've proven something.

    Ironically, these are many of the same people who insist that Obama's deficits are different, and you have to really look deep into why those are high, and then smart people like them will realize that it's all Bush's fault.
    Bush's fault? No, you have to look back ever further, to zombie Reagan!!!

  5. #245
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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    define:fiscal conservative - Google Search
    My GOP Idol gave a tax cut to all American taxpayers. Sorry you think that the govt. needs the money more than the taxpayer however as proven tax cuts increased the number of taxpayers and thus govt. tax revenue.

    You sound like another brainwashed liberal who simply cannot understand our basic economy built on consumerism. People with more of their money stimulates and grows the economy.
    He then raised taxes on three different occasions - including the biggest raise of the payroll tax ever.

    I've already provided the links to show that in this and other threads.

    You're the one ignoring the facts.

    I don't disagree with your assertion that money in the hands of the people is a good thing.

    But while he decreased income taxes - he raised payroll taxes.

    Indeed, there is evidence that for a good portion of the population, their overall (income + payroll) tax burden increased.

    In 1980, according to Congressional Budget Office estimates, middle-income families with children paid 8.2 percent of their income in income taxes, and 9.5 percent in payroll taxes. By 1988 the income tax share was down to 6.6 percent -- but the payroll tax share was up to 11.8 percent, and the combined burden was up, not down.
    Once again, I'm NOT judging it. I'm just trying to present the fact that Reagan - while cutting some taxes - increased taxes for others.

    He may be your idol - but you're idolizing for thing that aren't, in fact, true.

    He increased spending; created new government departments; and as much as he cut taxes for some, he raised taxes for others.

    You can argue all you like, but all the facts show that he expanded government, increased the deficit, and did raise some taxes.

    To me, that's not the definition of a small-government conservative. He did conservative things, yes. But I don't see him as a small government conservative - because the facts prove otherwise. Again, earlier I provided a link from a conservative think tank that derided him for his liberal spending. The Democrats in the House were certainly a part of it; but in the end he signed and approved all of those budgets, so he was complicit in the deficits of his era.

    For a lot of Americans things improved and he did expedite the downfall of the Soviet system. I give him credit for those things. But to do it, he spent a lot of money, increased deficits, and expanded government to a degree greater than Carter or Clinton. And yes, Dept. of Defense IS government.

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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Telecaster View Post
    Is it just because it is easier to complain about the President that we almost never see threads that specifically criticize Congress for the work they do?!!
    Well, yeah.

    Presidents regardless of party take the brunt of the criticism; when really most of the blame would lie with Congress (and as Congress of 2000 - 2006 proved, also regardless of party).

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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    He then raised taxes on three different occasions - including the biggest raise of the payroll tax ever.

    I've already provided the links to show that in this and other threads.

    You're the one ignoring the facts.

    I don't disagree with your assertion that money in the hands of the people is a good thing.

    But while he decreased income taxes - he raised payroll taxes.

    Indeed, there is evidence that for a good portion of the population, their overall (income + payroll) tax burden increased.



    Once again, I'm NOT judging it. I'm just trying to present the fact that Reagan - while cutting some taxes - increased taxes for others.

    He may be your idol - but you're idolizing for thing that aren't, in fact, true.

    He increased spending; created new government departments; and as much as he cut taxes for some, he raised taxes for others.

    You can argue all you like, but all the facts show that he expanded government, increased the deficit, and did raise some taxes.

    To me, that's not the definition of a small-government conservative. He did conservative things, yes. But I don't see him as a small government conservative - because the facts prove otherwise. Again, earlier I provided a link from a conservative think tank that derided him for his liberal spending. The Democrats in the House were certainly a part of it; but in the end he signed and approved all of those budgets, so he was complicit in the deficits of his era.

    For a lot of Americans things improved and he did expedite the downfall of the Soviet system. I give him credit for those things. But to do it, he spent a lot of money, increased deficits, and expanded government to a degree greater than Carter or Clinton. And yes, Dept. of Defense IS government.
    You have a good understanding of the numbers but a poor understanding of the government.

    The Congress has exclusive authority over the appropriation of funds and the enactment of legislation; they are a co-equal branch within government. Trying to blame the Executive for something the Legislature has ultimate control over is like blaming Barack Obama for the latest SCOTUS decision.

  8. #248
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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    He then raised taxes on three different occasions - including the biggest raise of the payroll tax ever.

    I've already provided the links to show that in this and other threads.

    You're the one ignoring the facts.

    I don't disagree with your assertion that money in the hands of the people is a good thing.

    But while he decreased income taxes - he raised payroll taxes.

    Indeed, there is evidence that for a good portion of the population, their overall (income + payroll) tax burden increased.



    Once again, I'm NOT judging it. I'm just trying to present the fact that Reagan - while cutting some taxes - increased taxes for others.

    He may be your idol - but you're idolizing for thing that aren't, in fact, true.

    He increased spending; created new government departments; and as much as he cut taxes for some, he raised taxes for others.

    You can argue all you like, but all the facts show that he expanded government, increased the deficit, and did raise some taxes.

    To me, that's not the definition of a small-government conservative. He did conservative things, yes. But I don't see him as a small government conservative - because the facts prove otherwise. Again, earlier I provided a link from a conservative think tank that derided him for his liberal spending. The Democrats in the House were certainly a part of it; but in the end he signed and approved all of those budgets, so he was complicit in the deficits of his era.

    For a lot of Americans things improved and he did expedite the downfall of the Soviet system. I give him credit for those things. But to do it, he spent a lot of money, increased deficits, and expanded government to a degree greater than Carter or Clinton. And yes, Dept. of Defense IS government.
    Film, first of all do you know what payroll taxes are and where the money goes? Any idea why Reagan raised payroll taxes?

    Reagan and the Congress increased the debt by 1.7 trillion dollars. Most of that was due to domestic spending which Congress generated. Reagan set a veto record and still the deficit rose as did the GDP, Govt. tax revenue, and the number of jobs created.

    The Dept. of Defense is the purpose of the Federal Govt. Carter basically gutted it, and Clinton had a peace dividend. You do have a one sided view of what actually went on during the Reagan years. It was the Dept. of Defense that helped destroy the Soviet Union.

    As for the deficit. were you around on 9/11? How did that event affect the budget? How about Hurricane Katrina, Hurricane Ike, and Hurricane Floyd?

    You seem to have a huge concern about the 1.7 trillion debt Reagan added. Do you have the same outrage or worse over the fact that Obama has exceeded the Reagan debt in less than 2 years? Does it bother you that Clinton added 1.2 trillion to the debt and he had a peace dividend?

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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    As said above, Reagan did what he could with an uncooperative Congress.
    Obama lied... Ambassador Stevens died!

  10. #250
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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by rebelbuc View Post
    As said above, Reagan did what he could with an uncooperative Congress.
    Which is exactly what's happening today.


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