View Poll Results: Was Reagan a fiscal-small government conservative?

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Thread: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

  1. #161
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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Ronald Reagan's request to lower taxes was initially rejected by the Democrat Congress. He took his message to the people and in August 1981 the Congress passed his 25% tax rate cut and implemented that over the next three years.

    The results are quite staggering as indicated by your website below in terms of revenue to the govt. That revenue growth came from job creation which according to the numbes approached 20 million new jobs created.

    Here are the historical numbers http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget...9/pdf/hist.pdf

    Now the question has to be asked, why do liberals fear the American people keeping more of their own money? Could it be that dependence on the govt. is reduced?

    In light of the revenue increase that is the only reason I can think of.
    First off, who on earth does not think that cutting taxes was a good thing when the top marginal rate was 70%. No one is disputing that.

    However, discretionary spending growth averaged 11% year over year through the Reagan years. Thats not fiscal conservatism.

    Year over year discretionary spending growth averaged 3% during the Clinton years. Once you figure in inflation and population growth, that amounts to a reduction in the fiscal size of government over in the Clinton era. Clinton certainly was not a fiscal conservative, but comes far closer to being one than Reagan ever did. Had Bush Sr. not raised taxes, discretionary spending not been curbed in the 90s, and taxes not raised again in 93, we would have been insolvent by 2000.

    When Reagan took office, federal public debt was 34% of GDP. When he left office it had exploded to 55% of GDP. In terms of economic growth, the 1980s lagged both the 1960s and the 1990s. So despite the exploding deficits, economic growth at the time was not that remarkable. Reagan's legacy is that he hastened the end of the Cold War. That will mark him down in the history books as having a successful presidency. However trying to portray him as a fiscal conservative is nothing but trying to polish a turd. Carter, Clinton, Bush Sr, Nixon, and Eisenhower all did a better job of curbing the growth of government than Reagan did.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    He had the power of the VETO

    VETO's can help control spending

    Deficits increased in all years of the Reagan Admin, not just the first 3

    Never said the Reagan Admin had a revenue problem, just a spending problem
    Military spending in a time of war is not a problem.

    It INCREASED SPENDING faster then the INCREASE in REVENUE.

    Now if you want to praise Reagan for the economy and increasing government revenue you also has to assign him the responsibility for government spending (ie bugdets and taxes)

    And the Reagan admin had a spending problem,

    Like a teenager with a credit card paid for by mommy and daddy. (or more correctly the teenagers childern)
    The legislature has exclusive power to appropriate funds.

  3. #163
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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    First off, who on earth does not think that cutting taxes was a good thing when the top marginal rate was 70%. No one is disputing that.

    However, discretionary spending growth averaged 11% year over year through the Reagan years. Thats not fiscal conservatism.

    Year over year discretionary spending growth averaged 3% during the Clinton years. Once you figure in inflation and population growth, that amounts to a reduction in the fiscal size of government over in the Clinton era. Clinton certainly was not a fiscal conservative, but comes far closer to being one than Reagan ever did. Had Bush Sr. not raised taxes, discretionary spending not been curbed in the 90s, and taxes not raised again in 93, we would have been insolvent by 2000.

    When Reagan took office, federal public debt was 34% of GDP. When he left office it had exploded to 55% of GDP. In terms of economic growth, the 1980s lagged both the 1960s and the 1990s. So despite the exploding deficits, economic growth at the time was not that remarkable. Reagan's legacy is that he hastened the end of the Cold War. That will mark him down in the history books as having a successful presidency. However trying to portray him as a fiscal conservative is nothing but trying to polish a turd. Carter, Clinton, Bush Sr, Nixon, and Eisenhower all did a better job of curbing the growth of government than Reagan did.
    How convenient, you ignore the recession that was building from the Carter years and hit this country hard in the early 80's, that is why the economic growth lagged behind other years. Take those first two years out and recalculate.

    I posted a link to an analysis of the Reagan years, obviously you ignored it. You have a very distorted view of the Reagan years, probably generated by some textbook or leftwing professor that ignores actual reality.

    I don't know where you get your information but to blame Reagan for the debt that occurred is a typical liberal ploy of placing blame in hopes that the ignorant believe you. We have three equal branches of govt. except when something bad happens then it is the President's fault if that President is in the opposite political party as the one making the claim. Fact is Congress spends the money, and the President cannot spend a dime without Congressional Approval. Any debt generated is just as much the fault of Congress as it is the President's

    It is hard arguing with someone who really hasn't a clue as to how our govt. works and has a very poor understanding of civics. It is hard debating the information you offer without providing the source of that information.

  4. #164
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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Well, how much of the debt was due to military spending and how much of the debt was due to entitlement/social programs?

    Since the military spending is unquestionably Constitutional and arguably essential (in light of the Cold War), you can hardly blame Reagan for that portion of the debt, which leaves social spending, and we all know who's responsible for the majority of that.
    First off, this argument that the founders intended for us to spend more than the next 18 to 20 nations combined is absurd. Many of them were classical liberals. They did not even want the United States to have a standing army. Instead they wanted the government to depend up citizen militias to defend the nation. Their reasoning was that a government could never become totalitarian if it had to depend on its citizens to defend it.

    So yes, rampant defense spending growth in the Reagan years and the corruption that lead to 700 dollar hammers and 1100 dollar toilet sets was entire the Reagan Administrations doing.

    Secondly, payroll taxes pay for Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. Those are your big entitlements, and they had surpluses at the time. The problem was rampant growth in discretionary spending during the Reagan years.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    First off, this argument that the founders intended for us to spend more than the next 18 to 20 nations combined is absurd. Many of them were classical liberals. They did not even want the United States to have a standing army. Instead they wanted the government to depend up citizen militias to defend the nation. Their reasoning was that a government could never become totalitarian if it had to depend on its citizens to defend it.

    So yes, rampant defense spending growth in the Reagan years and the corruption that lead to 700 dollar hammers and 1100 dollar toilet sets was entire the Reagan Administrations doing.

    Secondly, payroll taxes pay for Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. Those are your big entitlements, and they had surpluses at the time. The problem was rampant growth in discretionary spending during the Reagan years.
    How much did Reagan increase the military budget in real dollars? get the facts and stop with the opinion. Why don't you define discretionary spending for us and how much of that budget is discretionary spending?

  6. #166
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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    How convenient, you ignore the recession that was building from the Carter years and hit this country hard in the early 80's, that is why the economic growth lagged behind other years. Take those first two years out and recalculate.
    The federal reserve deliberately brought about a deep recession in order to choke rampant inflation out the economy.

    I posted a link to an analysis of the Reagan years, obviously you ignored it. You have a very distorted view of the Reagan years, probably generated by some textbook or leftwing professor that ignores actual reality.
    It was not a professor that planted this view with me. It was me looking at the numbers.

    I don't know where you get your information but to blame Reagan for the debt that occurred is a typical liberal ploy of placing blame in hopes that the ignorant believe you. We have three equal branches of govt. except when something bad happens then it is the President's fault if that President is in the opposite political party as the one making the claim. Fact is Congress spends the money, and the President cannot spend a dime without Congressional Approval. Any debt generated is just as much the fault of Congress as it is the President's
    1. The senate was in Republican hands from 1982 to 1987.

    2. Reagan's budget proposals most years were not that much lower than what congress actually passed.

    3. Reagan could have vetoed any spending bills he wanted.

    It is hard arguing with someone who really hasn't a clue as to how our govt. works and has a very poor understanding of civics. It is hard debating the information you offer without providing the source of that information.
    Good God, you would thing I was attacking Jesus or something when I point out that the Republican Messiah was not really that much of a fiscal conservative.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  7. #167
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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Military spending in a time of war is not a problem.



    The legislature has exclusive power to appropriate funds.
    So you didnt mind then when the Bush 1 and Clinton admins cut military spending?

    No cold war to fight the only thing close to a war the Reagan admin had Grenada excepted of course

  8. #168
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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    =SouthernDemocrat;1058581662]The federal reserve deliberately brought about a deep recession in order to choke rampant inflation out the economy.
    Yes, and that affected economic growth in 1981-1982, two years which you use to distort the Reagan record.



    It was not a professor that planted this view with me. It was me looking at the numbers.


    1. The senate was in Republican hands from 1982 to 1987.

    2. Reagan's budget proposals most years were not that much lower than what congress actually passed.

    3. Reagan could have vetoed any spending bills he wanted.
    Where do you get your numbers? Mine come from Bea.gov, BLS.gov, and the U.S. Treasury sites.

    Here are the facts regarding the Reagan record

    http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=1120


    Good God, you would thing I was attacking Jesus or something when I point out that the Republican Messiah was not really that much of a fiscal conservative

    You miss the point completely, Reagan's record is being distorted by whatever site you use or you don't understand what went into those numbers.
    Last edited by Conservative; 02-23-10 at 11:33 PM.

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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Toothpicvic View Post
    No, because of his military involvement with Libya, his Christian rhetoric, etc etc. Much more of a neoconservative IMO.
    Pure rhetoric, you don't know what you're talking about.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    It's quite obvious that the liberals around here don't know the difference between neocon, conservative and libertarian. Reagan attack Libya, so he's a neocon. How stupid is that? Only libertarians are noninterventionist peaceniks. Liberals think if they can paint Reagan as a neocon everyone will hate him. Well dream on libs, Reagan was loved by the American people and nothing you ever say will change that. They'll hate that peanut farmer, giggolo and socialist you people put in office before Reagan will every cross their minds.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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