View Poll Results: Was Reagan a fiscal-small government conservative?

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Thread: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

  1. #151
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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    The 20% interest rates were brought in by Volker to take control over the inflation rate and did infact cause a severe recession early in the Reagan admin

    You just dont get it

    Your bull over empowering people can be used by Obama taking on debt saying it's justified to get the US out of the economic mess left by Bush.

    The Debt as a % of GDP accounts for the the doubling of the GDP It is the ratio of debt to the GDP which is why I used that reference rather then just federal government debt.

    As for government revenue you could triple it, or quintuple it, but if you increase spending even more you are increasing the debt. And in the case of most government leaving it for future generations to pay off.

    The Reagan admin was not fiscally conservative, it was Keynsian
    I get it quite well, Obama has a vision of making this country just like any European Socialist nation which has low economic growth, high unemployment, and high taxes

    As for the so called mess that Bush left, I again state you haven't a clue how our govt. works. We have three equal branches of govt. except apparently when people like you want to place blame. Congress is every bit as much to blame if not more than Bush. Obama was in that Congress.

    Don't you find it somewhat interesting that Obama was in the State legislature of Illinois as the state went bankrupt and is probably beyond saving. Then he was elected to Congress and has helped destroy the U.S. Economy. Now that his hope and change you can believe in.

    If you are concerned about debt to GDP ratio was high during Reagan what is it now? Obama has proposed deficits of over 3 trillion in fiscal year 2010 and 2011 on top of the joint deficit of 1.47 trillion in 2009. That is almost the entire Bush debt in 8 years.

    Govt. revenue is NOT growing because there are over 15 million unemployed Americans. Reagan knew that employed people pay taxes and it was the focus on tax cuts that stimulated and grew the economy that created those jobs.

    Based upon the debt that GHW Bush, Clinton, GW Bush, and now Obama created Reagan was a fiscal conservative.

  2. #152
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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I get it quite well, Obama has a vision of making this country just like any European Socialist nation which has low economic growth, high unemployment, and high taxes

    As for the so called mess that Bush left, I again state you haven't a clue how our govt. works. We have three equal branches of govt. except apparently when people like you want to place blame. Congress is every bit as much to blame if not more than Bush. Obama was in that Congress.
    Too bad you dont share that same attitude towards all administrations.

    Don't you find it somewhat interesting that Obama was in the State legislature of Illinois as the state went bankrupt and is probably beyond saving. Then he was elected to Congress and has helped destroy the U.S. Economy. Now that his hope and change you can believe in.
    Dont particularly care about Obama
    If you are concerned about debt to GDP ratio was high during Reagan what is it now? Obama has proposed deficits of over 3 trillion in fiscal year 2010 and 2011 on top of the joint deficit of 1.47 trillion in 2009. That is almost the entire Bush debt in 8 years.
    Yes and it is a horrible thing to be doing.
    Govt. revenue is NOT growing because there are over 15 million unemployed Americans. Reagan knew that employed people pay taxes and it was the focus on tax cuts that stimulated and grew the economy that created those jobs.
    There is no growth to be had untill people, companies and government pay down their debts to more reasonable level
    Based upon the debt that GHW Bush, Clinton, GW Bush, and now Obama created Reagan was a fiscal conservative.
    TAKE ANOTHER FREAKIN look at the charts in the link I provided

    Under the CLINTON ADMIN, debt as a % of GDP declined. Something the Reagan admin cant even dream of

    This will be the last time I respond to any of your posts unless you start responding with facts rather then ideological based faith based memories

  3. #153
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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Too bad you dont share that same attitude towards all administrations.
    Dont particularly care about Obama Yes and it is a horrible thing to be doing.
    There is no growth to be had untill people, companies and government pay down their debts to more reasonable level


    TAKE ANOTHER FREAKIN look at the charts in the link I provided

    Under the CLINTON ADMIN, debt as a % of GDP declined. Something the Reagan admin cant even dream of

    This will be the last time I respond to any of your posts unless you start responding with facts rather then ideological based faith based memories
    Why did the debt as a percent of GDP decline? What legislation did Clinton author and sign that led to that?

    I don't give a damn about your charts but I do care about the information that goes into them and how it got there.

    People cannot pay down debt if their taxes go up and Reagan knew that. I got out of debt during the Reagan years thanks to the tax cuts and some good investments with that money. I took advantage of the economic growth and thus need less govt. "help."

    Whether you respond to my posts or not is irrelevant to me. I know what drives the American economy, I know what caused the Reagan debt, I know what caused the Clinton debt, I know what caused the Bush debt, and I know what Obama is doing that is going to cost this country our greatness.

  4. #154
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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Why did the debt as a percent of GDP decline? What legislation did Clinton author and sign that led to that?
    The economy was growing, tax revenues were increasing and spending was restrained. And as tax revenues and the economy was growing faster then spending the debt decreased as % of GDP

    As for why the economy was growing is another story entirely.
    I don't give a damn about your charts but I do care about the information that goes into them and how it got there.

    People cannot pay down debt if their taxes go up and Reagan knew that. I got out of debt during the Reagan years thanks to the tax cuts and some good investments with that money. I took advantage of the economic growth and thus need less govt. "help."
    People can most certainly pay down debts if taxes go up. They just cut back more on spending.

    I havent needed govenment help since I was in school ( ie state funded schools). I have never as an adult been on unemployement, welfare or any other government assistance. I took advantage of the opportunities around me and did not wait for the government to create them, be it Reagan, Clinton, Bush or Obama

    Whether you respond to my posts or not is irrelevant to me. I know what drives the American economy, I know what caused the Reagan debt, I know what caused the Clinton debt, I know what caused the Bush debt, and I know what Obama is doing that is going to cost this country our greatness.
    Obama is unfortunately following in the footsteps, of Nixon, Reagan, Clinton (to a lesser degree) and GWB. All supporters of government stimulus to make fake economic growth, that the future has to pay for. Unfortunately for Obama the jig is just about up.

    The US is a member of the PIGS now, and just like the PIGS, it is not something that occurred over night, but something that evolved over decades of politicians seeking to appease voters instead of making the tough choices sooner rather then later

  5. #155
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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Yes but!

    Reagan hod the help of the Fed in getting the economy under control but he spent a great deal in a bluff that helped take down the USSR.

    Reagan's policy reducing Taxes ans limited spending is what caused the recovery of the economy.

    It is impossible to completely stop spending and defeat and enemy. If you look at the economic growth that resulted from Reagan policies.

  6. #156
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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    Yes but!

    Reagan hod the help of the Fed in getting the economy under control but he spent a great deal in a bluff that helped take down the USSR.

    Reagan's policy reducing Taxes ans limited spending is what caused the recovery of the economy.

    It is impossible to completely stop spending and defeat and enemy. If you look at the economic growth that resulted from Reagan policies.
    For the last time

    HE DID NOT LIMIT SPENDING

    After the first couple of years the Reagan admin DID NOT LIMIT SPENDING. It increased faster then revenues and increased faster then the economy grew. That is not limited spending. By anyones books that is spending like a drunken sailor.


    You mean to increase the overall debt loads of the government and individuals in the US. Creating a debt fueled orgy of consumer spending that took the US from actually savin some money to having a negative savings rate by the end of the Bush admin. You mean by starting the hollowing out of the US manufacturing base to foreign low cost area's and focusing on creating service sector jobs where people trade a hair cut for cleaning their house as economic growth. By all means appluad that style of growth


    Personally give me the economic growth of places like South Korea from the mid to late 80s' till now. True growth built on wealth creation not debt creation.

    Growth built on debt creation is temporal, and will come crashing down hard. As seen in Iceland, Ireland, Spain, Greece ect. Growth built on wealth creation is sustainable, and will last until moronic policies promoting consumer(can include corporations) debt as the means for economic growth are promoted.


    I think Americans in genera need to be reminded of this factiod


    During the Reagan administration the US went from being a creditor nation to being a debtor nation

    For those that do not know that that means

    A creditor nations is one who owns the debt of foreign nations (consumer, government, corporate). It will tend to collect more in interest payments then it will pay out. Interest of course is a free wealth transfer to the creditor.

    A debtor nation is one that owe more to foreign nations then it is owed. It tends to send out interest payments to foreign nations at a level higher then it gets in return. During the Reagan admin the US moved from being a creditor nation to being a debtor nation, and in fact surpassed Brazil as the largest debtor nation during the Reagan admin.

    A debt fueled orgy of consumption, is sweet while it lasts. To bad the hangover is a real female dog
    Last edited by Lord Tammerlain; 02-23-10 at 10:40 PM.

  7. #157
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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Yet conservative critics insist Bush is no Ronald Reagan--and they're right. Reagan was the leader of the conservative movement before he entered the White House. In his initial years as president, he cut taxes as boldly as Bush and curbed domestic spending. But Reagan was a small government conservative who declared in his inauguration address that government was the problem, not the solution. There, Bush begs to differ.
    Big-Government Conservatism | The Weekly Standard

    OBL 11/24/02

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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Did you read my post? Even in the early 1980s it was well known by anybody who was anybody in Washington that the Soviet Union was collapsing due to shortages, lack of funding, weak military etc etc. Why did Reagan then see it as essential to increase the funding the military? Was he ignorant of the facts? Doubt it.
    I assume it was because that's what the country and the military expected him to do. Unlike you, he didn't have the luxury of hindsight.

    Good thing Reagan wasn't a completely ignorant America of the 1980s.
    So, Reagan had access to the facts and just ignored them? Is that what you're saying?

    Or are you saying the President of the U.S. knew as much about Russia as the average American? Doubt that.
    Reagan certainly knew more about Russia than you do, which is why his decision to increase military spending outweighs your hindsight.

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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    No, because of his military involvement with Libya, his Christian rhetoric, etc etc. Much more of a neoconservative IMO.

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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    He tripled the national debt while in office, thats not exactly "comparatively well".
    Well, how much of the debt was due to military spending and how much of the debt was due to entitlement/social programs?

    Since the military spending is unquestionably Constitutional and arguably essential (in light of the Cold War), you can hardly blame Reagan for that portion of the debt, which leaves social spending, and we all know who's responsible for the majority of that.

    My earlier point was, if you want to fault Reagan for wasting too much money militarize-wise, then I would say he did comparatively well given the nature of the conflict.

    Could you cite some of the relevant figures and provide the page number? That's quite a large PDF.

    Do you really need an explanation of why spending billions in an attempt to build 1980s laser armed space robots is idiotic?
    I guess I do. I've been fooled by far too many liberal talking points to assume that this one is true.

    I would need to hear a sound argument one way or the other before I made a decision. If you don't want to convince me of your argument, that's fine.

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