View Poll Results: Was Reagan a fiscal-small government conservative?

Voters
98. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, Because...

    38 38.78%
  • No, Because...

    60 61.22%
Page 13 of 34 FirstFirst ... 3111213141523 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 130 of 337

Thread: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

  1. #121
    I'm not-low all the time
    Kushinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Loop
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:52 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    16,257

    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    It's a perfectly reasonable comparison. Reagan's military spending was essential whereas Congress's entitlement spending was not. The idea that essential spending should be cut in order to accommodate entitlement spending is ridiculous.
    Not by a long shot.... First and foremost many entitlements provide food and water to many young children, something that is essential to them. So while you may despise any aspect of transfer payments, i cannot take your comparison seriously as it lacks objectivity. Secondly, i am not blaming anyone! Why have you not picked up on this?

    He was a fiscal conservative. Just because Congress wouldn't cut their beloved entitlement programs does not make Reagan a hypocrite.
    As a fiscal conservative, i pay my bills no matter how stupid some of them might seem in a later time. This conversation is not whether congress is "fiscally conservative". Reagan was the executive, and he allowed for a fiscal imbalance. No matter how you slice it, you cannot claim him to be something he was not.

    You're basically saying that Reagan should have let the Congress bully him into raising taxes or cutting defense spending. Good thing Reagan had a spine...
    Nope! I am saying deficits do matter and they will have to be paid for eventually. This utter fixation with congress is surprising.

    Would you rather see increased deficits during an economic expansion rather than increased taxes?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  2. #122
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    04-02-15 @ 06:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    8,211

    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    What you don't seem to get is that Reagan did not pay for what you are billing as "essential defense spending".
    If the military requests it in a time of war then it is probably as close to "essential" as you can get. Surely, you do not expect the President to micromanage every single military expenditure?

    There were huge deficits in general revenue at the time. However, those entitlements were paid for with the payroll tax...
    Some entitlements or all entitlements?

    ...and that payroll tax generated large surpluses at the time which was then used to pay for true "fiscally conservative" ideas such as the Strategic Defense Initiative, otherwise known as "Star Wars".

    Here is an artist depiction of Reagan's fantasy Sci/Fi Battle Satellites in a laser battle with some fantasy commie Satellites.



    That project that went absolutely nowhere alone accounted for something like 100 billion in "essential spending".

    Of course, lets not let reality get in the way of the Reagan circle jerk here.
    I haven't done enough research on "Star Wars" to say one way or the other. I've heard that it was a complete waste of money and I've also heard that it caused the Soviets to spend themselves into oblivion. Either way, Reagan could not predict the future, which makes your hindsight argument somewhat irrelevant.

  3. #123
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    04-02-15 @ 06:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    8,211

    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Can you tell us why Reagan saw it essential to increase defense spending given the then well known fact that the Soviet Union was already facing massive shortages of food by the early 1980s and their military was severely crippled by lack of funding?
    Hindsight is 20/20. You have that luxury. I doubt many Americans would have shared your sentiment at the time...

  4. #124
    Sage
    Conservative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 12:10 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    67,270

    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    What you don't seem to get is that Reagan did not pay for what you are billing as "essential defense spending". There were huge deficits in general revenue at the time. However, those entitlements were paid for with the payroll tax, and that payroll tax generated large surpluses at the time which was then used to pay for true "fiscally conservative" ideas such as the Strategic Defense Initiative, otherwise known as "Star Wars".

    Here is an artist depiction of Reagan's fantasy Sci/Fi Battle Satellites in a laser battle with some fantasy commie Satellites.



    That project that went absolutely nowhere alone accounted for something like 100 billion in "essential spending".

    You just can't make this stuff up. The Reagan Administration was the poster child for pissing away the taxpayers money.

    Of course, lets not let reality get in the way of the Reagan circle jerk here.
    Here is a very good analysis of the Reagan years. Read the facts of what happened during that era then tell me whether or not his results qualify him as a success. I believe you will see why true Conservatives have nothing but respect for what he did

    Supply-Side Tax Cuts and the Truth about the Reagan Economic Record | William A. Niskanen and Stephen Moore | Cato Institute: Policy Analysis

  5. #125
    Sage
    Conservative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 12:10 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    67,270

    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Hindsight is 20/20. You have that luxury. I doubt many Americans would have shared your sentiment at the time...
    Most that were working or living during that period of time do not share the anti Reagan rhetoric. His leadership was needed after the Carter malaise and the results speak for themselves.

    Supply-Side Tax Cuts and the Truth about the Reagan Economic Record | William A. Niskanen and Stephen Moore | Cato Institute: Policy Analysis

  6. #126
    I'm not-low all the time
    Kushinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Loop
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:52 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    16,257

    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Here is a very good analysis of the Reagan years. Read the facts of what happened during that era then tell me whether or not his results qualify him as a success. I believe you will see why true Conservatives have nothing but respect for what he did

    Supply-Side Tax Cuts and the Truth about the Reagan Economic Record | William A. Niskanen and Stephen Moore | Cato Institute: Policy Analysis
    Nobody is denying success. He embraced Keynesianism and deficits as a means to achieve that success.

    Supply side policy has its place, just like everything else.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  7. #127
    Pragmatist
    SouthernDemocrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    KC
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    17,410

    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    If the military requests it in a time of war then it is probably as close to "essential" as you can get. Surely, you do not expect the President to micromanage every single military expenditure?
    Do I expect the president himself to be accountable for every $700 dollar hammer and every $1100 toilet seat, no, I don't.

    However, being that the pentagon is accountable to the president, ultimately the president's administration is accountable for waste and fraud in defense spending.

    Some entitlements or all entitlements?
    All entitlements of any size. Welfare is tiny compared to Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.


    I haven't done enough research on "Star Wars" to say one way or the other. I've heard that it was a complete waste of money
    That would be the version called "reality"

    and I've also heard that it caused the Soviets to spend themselves into oblivion.
    That would be the popular conservative mythology version.

    Either way, Reagan could not predict the future, which makes your hindsight argument somewhat irrelevant.
    So anytime a president pisses away the taxpayers money on the most absurd notion imaginable it's automatically excused by the no one can predict the future excuse?

    I don't get it. Conservatives have a great example of a fiscally conservative president that was popular and pragmatic and that is Dwight Eisenhower, so why the Reagan worship?
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  8. #128
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    04-02-15 @ 06:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    8,211

    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Not by a long shot.... First and foremost many entitlements provide food and water to many young children, something that is essential to them.
    And many entitlements do not provide food and water to children, which means they are hardly essential.

    So while you may despise any aspect of transfer payments...
    I never said that.

    i cannot take your comparison seriously as it lacks objectivity. Secondly, i am not blaming anyone! Why have you not picked up on this?
    So, you're not blaming Reagan for the deficit?

    As a fiscal conservative, i pay my bills no matter how stupid some of them might seem in a later time. This conversation is not whether congress is "fiscally conservative". Reagan was the executive, and he allowed for a fiscal imbalance. No matter how you slice it, you cannot claim him to be something he was not.
    He allowed for a fiscal imbalance because he needed to increase defense spending. He didn't have a choice, which means there is no reason to question his fiscal conservativism.

    Nope! I am saying deficits do matter and they will have to be paid for eventually. This utter fixation with congress is surprising.
    I'm fixating on Congress because they are the ones who refused to cut entitlement spending.

    Would you rather see increased deficits during an economic expansion rather than increased taxes?
    False dichotomy.

  9. #129
    Pragmatist
    SouthernDemocrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    KC
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    17,410

    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    I am not in anyway saying that Ronald Reagan will not be judged by history as being a great president. He was likable. He was a great communicator. He made a lasting impression on American politics and government. He is not going to rank up with Jefferson, Lincoln or FDR, but even he would not have ranked himself on their level. Just the same, there is no doubt that history will judge him as a successful president.

    That does not make him a fiscal conservative though.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  10. #130
    Sage
    Conservative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 12:10 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    67,270

    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Nobody is denying success. He embraced Keynesianism and deficits as a means to achieve that success.

    Supply side policy has its place, just like everything else.
    Actually what he embraced was the empowerment of the American people. By doing so his economy created almost 20 million jobs and those taxpayers helped grow govt. tax revenue.

    Current tax receipts

    1981 663.5
    1982 659.5
    1983 694.1
    1984 762.5
    1985 823.9
    1986 868.8
    1987 965.7
    1988 1,018.9

Page 13 of 34 FirstFirst ... 3111213141523 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •