View Poll Results: Was Reagan a fiscal-small government conservative?

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Thread: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

  1. #111
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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Folks to understand why Reagan was a true conservative, you have to understand how conservatism works in America today.

    The Federal Budget for the National Endowment for the Arts fiscal 2010 is 161.3 Million dollars.

    That according to modern conservative dogma is a huge waste of the taxpayers money and the poster child for big government. A true American Conservative would do away with the National Endowment for the Arts and thus save the American taxpayer that 161 Million dollars that does nothing in their eyes but fund sculptures depicting Karl Marx defecating on the sweet Baby Jesus.

    However, to protect our liberty and counter the threats that China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, and all those evil Muslim Terrorists pose to our freedom (especially considering they believe we have one in the White House), our total security outlays are:

    Total Federal Security Outlay's Fiscal year 2010: $1025 Billion dollars.

    Of course thats before you get into the total costs of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Sure, thats a lot of money, its more than the next 20 or so nations combined, but you got to look at the "threats" we face.

    So let's start with looking at Russia's Defense Budget for 2010: $45 Billion Dollars.

    China's Defense Budget: $70.1 Billion Dollars.

    Iran's Defense Budget: $7.1 Billion Dollars.

    Granted, Russia can't even afford to fuel its own Navy. China's defense spending is 10% of our military budget, and that is for a nation that is nearly 5 times our population. Iran, which unlike Russia or China is a nation that actually is an enemy of the United States has a defense budget that is 1/100th ours.

    Just the same, that 1 trillion dollar plus security outlay for 2010 alone = Wise Investment.

    The 160 million dollar outlay for the National Arts Endowment = Liberals raping the taxpayers so they can fund sculptures depicting Karl Marx defecating on the sweet Baby Jesus.

    You see, to the modern American Conservative, a true American knows that having 1000 military bases around the world, including 268 bases in Germany, 124 in Japan, 87 in South Korea, and other places scattered around the globe including sunny Aruba, as well as 224 Pentagon ran Golf Courses, and even a Ski Center in the Alps, are all absolutely essential to American security and to protect us from a world chock full of evil doers that hate our freedom.

    Remember, even if that 1 trillion dollars a year in "security" outlays seems kind of big, as any true American Conservative will tell you, its temporary. It's not permanent, and thus it doesn't count as big government no matter how much money it is. Hey, they don't even think that is enough money for it. Which is why if a godless evil liberal or libertarian was even to suggest that we may not need all 224 Pentagon ran Golf Courses, well, they obviously hate America and want to turn us into another Soviet Union because any true American Conservative knows that there is no waste at all in our defense outlays, and any attempts to cut it is as communist as putting your to work in a commune harvesting rice with a number on your back. Just the same those massive security outlays are only temporary. As soon as the rapture comes all those true American Conservatives will be instantly raptured away, and the godless liberals and libertarians can slash it as much as they want then.

    You see, once you understand how modern American Conservatism works, its easy to see that Reagan was a true modern American Conservative.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  2. #112
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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Oh, and I nominate that post for the best one of the year so far.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  3. #113
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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    I blame him for not dealing with reality in a fiscally conservative manner. Whether or not he "got his way" has nothing to do with it.
    You know what, blame was a harsh word. I do not blame him for it at all. I just cannot call him a fiscal conservative given the facts....
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  4. #114
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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    I blame him for not dealing with reality in a fiscally conservative manner. Whether or not he "got his way" has nothing to do with it.
    Let's say a family has a budget of $100 and the head of the household needs to spend $75 dollars on necessities like food and water while the rest of the household wants to spend $50 on things like cigarettes and booze. The head of the household submits a budget: $75 on food and water, $25 on cigarettes and booze.

    If the head of the household goes out an buys $75 dollars worth of food and water while the rest of the household goes out and puts $50 dollars worth of cigarettes and booze on their credit card - who are you going to blame for the $25 deficit? The person who bought the necessities or the idiots who refused to live within their means? I suspect you would blame the idiots, unless, of course, the head of the household's name was Ronald Reagan...

    We lose the cold war without increased military spending? (not that i was against it)
    It wasn't the only reason we won but it certainly cannot be discounted. The military told Reagan what it needed to win and he gave it to them. That's the responsibility of a Commander In Chief.

    He did have another option that would have been "fiscally conservative". Increase government revenue.
    Ah yes, the old "increase taxes to accommodate Congress's love of pork" theory. How about, instead of increasing taxes, we just cut entitlement spending? Why do you always ignore that aspect of the budget?

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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Let's say a family has a budget of $100 and the head of the household needs to spend $75 dollars on necessities like food and water while the rest of the household wants to spend $50 on things like cigarettes and booze. The head of the household submits a budget: $75 on food and water, $25 on cigarettes and booze.

    If the head of the household goes out an buys $75 dollars worth of food and water while the rest of the household goes out and puts $50 dollars worth of cigarettes and booze on their credit card - who are you going to blame for the $25 deficit? The person who bought the necessities or the idiots who refused to live within their means? I suspect you would blame the idiots, unless, of course, the head of the household's name was Ronald Reagan...
    It is unwise to compare the federal budget (not to mention the manner in which you did) to a house hold budget; much less with unrealistic proportions. I cannot comment on it because it is..... nonsensical

    It wasn't the only reason we won but it certainly cannot be discounted. The military told Reagan what it needed to win and he gave it to them. That's the responsibility of a Commander In Chief.
    I'm not against the increased military spending. Not by a long shot. However, to claim he was a fiscal conservative is a far reach.

    Ah yes, the old "increase taxes to accommodate Congress's love of pork" theory. How about, instead of increasing taxes, we just cut entitlement spending? [B]Why do you always ignore that aspect of the budget?
    I am not ignoring it.... But it did not materialize and would have been impossible. What you have implied is that you would rather see rising deficits than higher taxes... This is commonly referred to as passing the buck. Not a very conservative thing to do now is it?
    Last edited by Kushinator; 02-23-10 at 05:30 PM.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  6. #116
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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Ah yes, the old "increase taxes to accommodate Congress's love of pork" theory. How about, instead of increasing taxes, we just cut entitlement spending? Why do you always ignore that aspect of the budget?
    Ok, lets look at that in the context of the Reagan years.

    After Social Security was reformed in 1983, there were huge surpluses with it and Medicare throughout the 1980s. These surpluses that resulted from payroll tax revenues far exceeding Medicare and Social Security outlays were then used to float deficits in general revenue. This is what the federal government would refer to as a unified budget. Basically, in many ways it constituted a wealth transfer from workers at the time to defense contractors.

    Just the same, lets say Reagan got really bold and some how convinced congress to do away with Social Security and Medicare altogether. Now sure, that would have resulted in a reduction of federal outlays. The problem is that if you did away with Medicare and Social Security, you would also do away with the Payroll Tax. Since that tax was generating a large revenue surplus at the time, the net result would have been much greater budget deficits than what would have otherwise existed.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    It is unwise to compare the federal budget (not to mention the manner in which you did) to a house hold budget; much less with unrealistic proportions. I cannot comment on it because it is..... nonsensical
    It's a perfectly reasonable comparison. Reagan's military spending was essential whereas Congress's entitlement spending was not. The idea that essential spending should be cut in order to accommodate entitlement spending is ridiculous.

    I'm not against the increased military spending. Not by a long shot. However, to claim he was a fiscal conservative is a far reach.
    He was a fiscal conservative. Just because Congress wouldn't cut their beloved entitlement programs does not make Reagan a hypocrite.

    I am not ignoring it.... But it did not materialize and would have been impossible. What you have implied is that you would rather see rising deficits than higher taxes... This is commonly referred to as passing the buck. Not a very conservative thing to do now is it?
    You're basically saying that Reagan should have let the Congress bully him into raising taxes or cutting defense spending. Good thing Reagan had a spine...
    Last edited by Ethereal; 02-23-10 at 05:44 PM.

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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Ok, lets look at that in the context of the Reagan years.

    After Social Security was reformed in 1983, there were huge surpluses with it and Medicare throughout the 1980s. These surpluses that resulted from payroll tax revenues far exceeding Medicare and Social Security outlays were then used to float deficits in general revenue. This is what the federal government would refer to as a unified budget. Basically, in many ways it constituted a wealth transfer from workers at the time to defense contractors.

    Just the same, lets say Reagan got really bold and some how convinced congress to do away with Social Security and Medicare altogether. Now sure, that would have resulted in a reduction of federal outlays. The problem is that if you did away with Medicare and Social Security, you would also do away with the Payroll Tax. Since that tax was generating a large revenue surplus at the time, the net result would have been much greater budget deficits than what would have otherwise existed.
    I'm not saying Reagan was Mr. Perfect but I think he was a pragmatic fiscal conservative. The only way he wasn't is if you view him in a purely ideological context.
    Last edited by Ethereal; 02-23-10 at 05:44 PM.

  9. #119
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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    It's a perfectly reasonable comparison. Reagan's military spending was essential whereas Congress's entitlement spending was not. The idea that essential spending should be cut to accommodate entitlement spending is ridiculous.
    What you don't seem to get is that Reagan did not pay for what you are billing as "essential defense spending". There were huge deficits in general revenue at the time. However, those entitlements were paid for with the payroll tax, and that payroll tax generated large surpluses at the time which was then used to pay for true "fiscally conservative" ideas such as the Strategic Defense Initiative, otherwise known as "Star Wars".

    Here is an artist depiction of Reagan's fantasy Sci/Fi Battle Satellites in a laser battle with some fantasy commie Satellites.



    That project that went absolutely nowhere alone accounted for something like 100 billion in "essential spending".

    You just can't make this stuff up. The Reagan Administration was the poster child for pissing away the taxpayers money.

    Of course, lets not let reality get in the way of the Reagan circle jerk here.
    Last edited by SouthernDemocrat; 02-23-10 at 05:53 PM.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  10. #120
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    Re: Was Reagan a fiscal/small government conservative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Let's say a family has a budget of $100 and the head of the household needs to spend $75 dollars on necessities like food and water while the rest of the household wants to spend $50 on things like cigarettes and booze. The head of the household submits a budget: $75 on food and water, $25 on cigarettes and booze.

    If the head of the household goes out an buys $75 dollars worth of food and water while the rest of the household goes out and puts $50 dollars worth of cigarettes and booze on their credit card - who are you going to blame for the $25 deficit? The person who bought the necessities or the idiots who refused to live within their means? I suspect you would blame the idiots, unless, of course, the head of the household's name was Ronald Reagan...
    Can you tell us why Reagan saw it essential to increase defense spending given the then well known fact that the Soviet Union was already facing massive shortages of food by the early 1980s and their military was severely crippled by lack of funding?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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