View Poll Results: Are Politics and Religion becoming one and the same?

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  • Yes, entirely.

    4 12.12%
  • Yes, partially.

    15 45.45%
  • No, partially.

    3 9.09%
  • No, entirely

    7 21.21%
  • Other (please explain).

    4 12.12%
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Thread: Are Politics and Religion becoming one and the same?

  1. #51
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    Re: Are Politics and Religion becoming one and the same?

    Since when is this new?

    Be wary of presentism.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  2. #52
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    Re: Are Politics and Religion becoming one and the same?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Since when is this new?

    Be wary of presentism.
    Well, as a younger adult (maybe), I am somewhat new to noticing these things...

    So perhaps it has always been the case.

    Personally, I would prefer a governance based on reason and rational thought, rather than popular opinion.


    But since our education system has degraded to the point where it cannot provide the basis for reason and rational thought to the majority of our population, we are screwed until it gets fixed. But the people who benefit most from lack of reason and rational thought are in charge of it...crap.


    Because of this, even if we had potential leaders who governed based on reason and rational thought, they would have to pander to popular opinion to get into power in the first place. And it is far more likely that someone who is willing to pander to popular opinion would care more about personal gain, rather than reason and rational thought.

    Damnit.
    Last edited by The Mark; 02-16-10 at 08:49 PM.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  3. #53
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    Re: Are Politics and Religion becoming one and the same?

    What do you mean "becoming"?

    Politics is the art of manipulating people to achieve a goal.

    Religion is the art of conning people to gain money and power.

    Politics and religion have always been bunkmates.

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    Re: Are Politics and Religion becoming one and the same?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    What do you mean "becoming"?

    Politics is the art of manipulating people to achieve a goal.

    Religion is the art of conning people to gain money and power.

    Politics and religion have always been bunkmates.
    Not to mention the cross-over categories:
    Religious Politics…and Political Religions.

    I suppose I could have phrased it differently…

    Perhaps: “Are Politics and Religion, always very similar, becoming even more so?”

    Of course, even that is based on my own perceptions, as a younger adult than some on this forum. So it may be new to me, but old news to others.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  5. #55
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    Re: Are Politics and Religion becoming one and the same?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Are Politics and Religion becoming one and the same?

    By this I mean:

    Are political positions and the support they have (in some cases) becoming more belief based than reason based?
    I'm in late.

    I believe that religion is becoming less of a factor in our politics. They use to be tightly wound together - especially in our pre-Constitution days. However, our religious and connected cultural influence is becoming *more* diverse - so it's becoming more difficult for religion to be tightly wound with politics.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

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    Re: Are Politics and Religion becoming one and the same?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    I'm in late.

    I believe that religion is becoming less of a factor in our politics. They use to be tightly wound together - especially in our pre-Constitution days. However, our religious and connected cultural influence is becoming *more* diverse - so it's becoming more difficult for religion to be tightly wound with politics.
    Ah.

    It seems several people had this misconception.

    This is not a thread (except in an oblique way) about the influences Politics and Religion have on each other, but rather the similarities between the two, and if those similarities are becoming...more similar.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  7. #57
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    Re: Are Politics and Religion becoming one and the same?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Ah.

    It seems several people had this misconception.

    This is not a thread (except in an oblique way) about the influences Politics and Religion have on each other, but rather the similarities between the two, and if those similarities are becoming...more similar.
    So, apply my point - and you'll see that I feel that the 'similarities' are fewer and farther between.
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    Re: Are Politics and Religion becoming one and the same?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    So, apply my point - and you'll see that I feel that the 'similarities' are fewer and farther between.
    Ah, so you are disagreeing with me?

    Well, I was referring, more specifically, to various instances in recent times (as in, the last decade or so), wherein political positions and changes were made based upon what could be made or was popular in public opinion.

    Not what was best, but what was most popular. What people believed was best.

    In other words, something was believed to be true, so it was responded to as if it were true.

    Much like, persons who believe in any give religion have some things they believe are true, and which they hold as true.

    Not precisely the same, but similar.

    Now, it is obviously a matter of opinion as to what specific instances of "belief trumps truth" happen in politics these days. For example: "People believe in X political figure, with an almost religious fervor", can be applied to political figures on either side, depending on who the applier is…and what their beliefs are.

    Much like competing good/bad in religions, or perhaps “those people are heathens, and thus bad because they don’t believe as we do”.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  9. #59
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    Re: Are Politics and Religion becoming one and the same?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Well, as a younger adult (maybe), I am somewhat new to noticing these things...

    So perhaps it has always been the case.

    Personally, I would prefer a governance based on reason and rational thought, rather than popular opinion.


    But since our education system has degraded to the point where it cannot provide the basis for reason and rational thought to the majority of our population, we are screwed until it gets fixed. But the people who benefit most from lack of reason and rational thought are in charge of it...crap.


    Because of this, even if we had potential leaders who governed based on reason and rational thought, they would have to pander to popular opinion to get into power in the first place. And it is far more likely that someone who is willing to pander to popular opinion would care more about personal gain, rather than reason and rational thought.

    Damnit.
    Reason and rational thought is an admirable goal, but under the restrictions of policy decision-making, it's nowhere near so simple or perhaps possible. Being reasonable and rational may at times merely mean being aware that political decision-making is marred by irrationality, overcomplexity, and time restraints.

    Such is life. Grunting about it is almost like grunting at the fact that at one point or another, you will have to do something you do not like. It's frustrating, and grunting about it can feel better, but most of the time, grunting about it will not change the external. Maybe at best it will change you and your approach to the situation.

    On a side note, I am not so certain the education system is in such a crisis, but as a result of popular belief, it certainly appears to be so.

    Now, here is something to think about for your perception of change. Sometimes people become caught up in the current era, and forget the perceptions of those who have lived earlier times. We must be aware that others lived before us.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 02-18-10 at 04:47 AM.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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