View Poll Results: Is Global Warming a myth?

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  • Yes, explain

    52 34.44%
  • No, Explain

    99 65.56%
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Thread: Is Global Warming a myth?

  1. #621
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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Not at the same time, but yes they can do either. Only problem is there has been no major volcano activity during this warming period.
    Krakatoa? Pinitubo? Santorini? Tamboura and "The Year Without A Summer"? Toba?

    The eruption lasted perhaps two weeks, but the ensuing "volcanic winter" resulted in a decrease in average global temperatures by 3 to 3.5 degrees Celsius for several years. Greenland ice cores record a pulse of starkly reduced levels of organic carbon sequestration. Very few plants or animals in southeast Asia would have survived, and it is possible that the eruption caused a planet-wide die-off.

    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Toba]Lake Toba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    The Toba eruprion is the one that pushed humans to the brink of extinction (some estimate as few as 14,000 humans were left before things got back to normal).

    I would say those are pretty major.

    So tell me, can you give some documentation of a volcano warming the Earth? Because you agree with something I said in sarcasm, and I have never seen anything to show that warming occurs after a volcano eruption.
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  2. #622
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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Or rather, the proof that some claim exists has come under suspicion.

    I would not go as far as some, and claim the argument for doing X is completely dead…but I consider it damaged.

    Of course, I am biased because I have always been skeptical of it.
    With me the initial skepticism came about when I saw the "Global Cooling" of the 1970's flip into the "Global Warming" of the 1990's. Such a radical change told me that they likely did not know what they were talking about, but shifting their theories to match current trends.

    And it is still evident to me today. They will often claim A, then when B happens they mostly say "Oh, B happened because of A" (extreme cold in winter, why that is global warming!).

    Not to mention that a sample of even 25, 50, 100, or 500 years really means nothing when we are thousands of years past the last ice age.
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. - John Stuart Mill

  3. #623
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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    I watched very carefully today and can tell you that, based on my observations, the sun goes around the earth. So much for those liberal eggheads Copernicus and Galileo! Their reign of error is over!

  4. #624
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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oozlefinch View Post
    Krakatoa? Pinitubo? Santorini? Tamboura and "The Year Without A Summer"? Toba?

    The eruption lasted perhaps two weeks, but the ensuing "volcanic winter" resulted in a decrease in average global temperatures by 3 to 3.5 degrees Celsius for several years. Greenland ice cores record a pulse of starkly reduced levels of organic carbon sequestration. Very few plants or animals in southeast Asia would have survived, and it is possible that the eruption caused a planet-wide die-off.

    Lake Toba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The Toba eruprion is the one that pushed humans to the brink of extinction (some estimate as few as 14,000 humans were left before things got back to normal).

    I would say those are pretty major.

    So tell me, can you give some documentation of a volcano warming the Earth? Because you agree with something I said in sarcasm, and I have never seen anything to show that warming occurs after a volcano eruption.
    No one is discounting volcanoes potential for changes to the climate. And I already provided documentation that volcanoes can cause global heating:

    "Today we’re speaking with climate scientist Peter Huybers of Harvard. Dr. Huybers received a 2009 genius grant from the MacArthur Foundation. He spoke with EarthSky about why the last ice age ended 12,000 years ago.

    Peter Huybers: I think ice ages are really the outstanding mystery in Earth sciences presently.

    Scientists have scrutinized the evidence for ice ages in Earth’s past. Dr. Huyber’s recent research focused on one possible factor triggering the end of an ice age – volcanic activity.

    Peter Huybers: The major finding was that there was a dramatic uptick in volcanic activity during the last deglaciation.

    Volcanoes can cause carbon dioxide, or CO2 – a greenhouse gas – to increase in Earth’s atmosphere.

    Twelve thousand years ago, volcanoes might have caused warming and melting ice. In some places on Earth, melting ice sheets might have taken a load off rock below. That might have increased volcanic activity even more – which means more CO2 – and more warming.

    Peter Huybers: In so much as volcanoes played an important role in providing a feedback in past climate, we can then contrast that with the even much stronger control of CO2, which humans are exerting.

    In other words, volcanoes at the end of the last ice age were releasing about three-tenths of a gigaton of CO2 each year. Today, humans are releasing about a hundred times more."
    Peter Huybers: 'Ice ages are the outstanding mystery in Earth sciences' | EarthSky

    Here is another excellent discussion of this very issue:

    " According to the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS), the world’s volcanoes, both on land and undersea, generate about 200 million tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) annually, while our automotive and industrial activities cause some 24 billion tons of CO2 emissions every year worldwide. Despite the arguments to the contrary, the facts speak for themselves: Greenhouse gas emissions from volcanoes comprise less than one percent of those generated by today’s human endeavors.

    Human Emissions Also Dwarf Volcanoes in Carbon Dioxide Production
    Another indication that human emissions dwarf those of volcanoes is the fact that atmospheric CO2 levels, as measured by sampling stations around the world set up by the federally funded Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center, have gone up consistently year after year regardless of whether or not there have been major volcanic eruptions in specific years. “If it were true that individual volcanic eruptions dominated human emissions and were causing the rise in carbon dioxide concentrations, then these carbon dioxide records would be full of spikes—one for each eruption,” says Coby Beck, a journalist writing for online environmental news portal Grist.org. “Instead, such records show a smooth and regular trend.”

    Do Volcano Eruptions Cause Global Cooling?
    Furthermore, some scientists believe that spectacular volcanic eruptions, like that of Mt. St. Helens in 1980 and Mt. Pinatubo in 1991, actually lead to short-term global cooling, not warming, as sulfur dioxide (SO2), ash and other particles in the air and stratosphere reflect some solar energy instead of letting it into Earth’s atmosphere. SO2, which converts to sulfuric acid aerosol when it hits the stratosphere, can linger there for as long as seven years and can exercise a cooling effect long after a volcanic eruption has taken place.

    Scientists tracking the effects of the major 1991 eruption of the Philippines’ Mt. Pinatubo found that the overall effect of the blast was to cool the surface of the Earth globally by some 0.5 degrees Celsius a year later, even though rising human greenhouse gas emissions and an El Nino event (a warm water current which periodically flows along the coast of Ecuador and Peru in South America) caused some surface warming during the 1991-1993 study period.

    Volcanoes May Melt Antarctic Ice Caps from Below
    In an interesting twist on the issue, British researchers last year published an article in the peer reviewed scientific journal Nature showing how volcanic activity may be contributing to the melting of ice caps in Antarctica—but not because of any emissions, natural or man-made, per se. Instead, scientists Hugh Corr and David Vaughan of the British Antarctic Survey believe that volcanoes underneath Antarctica may be melting the continent’s ice sheets from below, just as warming air temperatures from human-induced emissions erode them from above."
    Volcanoes and Greenhouse Gases - Do Volcanoes Generate More Greenhouse Gas Than Humans?
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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Thanks to you and various other poster's links, I've taken in some interesting information on the AGW/ACC issue lately.

    But not enough proof to counter my ingrained skepticism of the theory.

    I view it as an example of the infamous “slippery slope” argument/fallacy.
    Slippery slope - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    If we don’t do X, Y1,Y2, and Y3, followed by ever increasing Y’s, will occur.

    Now, I am aware some consider enough proof exists that not doing X will cause Y1, Y2, Y3…..and so on.

    But I have not seen such.

    Or rather, the proof that some claim exists has come under suspicion.

    I would not go as far as some, and claim the argument for doing X is completely dead…but I consider it damaged.

    Of course, I am biased because I have always been skeptical of it.
    You open mindedness and honesty is appreciated!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oozlefinch View Post

    Not to mention that a sample of even 25, 50, 100, or 500 years really means nothing when we are thousands of years past the last ice age.

    The case for human causes of increased atmospheric CH4 over the last 5000 years


    "We propose that humans significantly altered atmospheric CH4 levels after 5000 years BP and that anthropogenic inputs just prior to the industrial revolution accounted for up to 25% of the CH4 level of 725 ppb (parts per billion). We base this hypothesis on three arguments: (1) the 100 ppb increase in atmospheric CH4 that occurred after 5000 years BP follows a pattern unprecedented in any prior orbitally driven change in the ice-core record; (2) non-anthropogenic explanations for this increase (expansion of boreal peat lands or tropical wetlands) are inconsistent with existing evidence; and (3) inefficient early rice farming is a quantitatively plausible means of producing anomalously large CH4 inputs to the atmosphere prior to the industrial revolution. If the areas flooded for farming harbored abundant CH4-producing weeds, disproportionately large amounts of CH4 would have been produced in feeding relatively small pre-industrial populations."



    "MORE EVIDENCE that the Earth is warmer than at any time in the past 1,000 years has come from ice cores in a glacier on the "roof" of the world.

    Himalayan ice cores provide convincing evidence that the past 50 years - and the 1990s in particular - have been the warmest of the past millennium, says a study published today in the journal Science.

    An international team of scientists drilled three cores each of about 150 metres (500ft) into the Dasuopu glacier, an ice field on the flank of Xixabangma, a peak that rises to 26,293ft on the southern rim of the Tibetan plateau."
    Ice cores from a Himalayan glacier confirm global warming - The Independent (London, England) | Encyclopedia.com
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  7. #627
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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post

    The case for human causes of increased atmospheric CH4 over the last 5000 years


    "We propose that humans significantly altered atmospheric CH4 levels after 5000 years BP and that anthropogenic inputs just prior to the industrial revolution accounted for up to 25% of the CH4 level of 725 ppb (parts per billion). We base this hypothesis on three arguments: (1) the 100 ppb increase in atmospheric CH4 that occurred after 5000 years BP follows a pattern unprecedented in any prior orbitally driven change in the ice-core record; (2) non-anthropogenic explanations for this increase (expansion of boreal peat lands or tropical wetlands) are inconsistent with existing evidence; and (3) inefficient early rice farming is a quantitatively plausible means of producing anomalously large CH4 inputs to the atmosphere prior to the industrial revolution. If the areas flooded for farming harbored abundant CH4-producing weeds, disproportionately large amounts of CH4 would have been produced in feeding relatively small pre-industrial populations."



    "MORE EVIDENCE that the Earth is warmer than at any time in the past 1,000 years has come from ice cores in a glacier on the "roof" of the world.

    Himalayan ice cores provide convincing evidence that the past 50 years - and the 1990s in particular - have been the warmest of the past millennium, says a study published today in the journal Science.

    An international team of scientists drilled three cores each of about 150 metres (500ft) into the Dasuopu glacier, an ice field on the flank of Xixabangma, a peak that rises to 26,293ft on the southern rim of the Tibetan plateau."
    Ice cores from a Himalayan glacier confirm global warming - The Independent (London, England) | Encyclopedia.com
    So now it is the fault of rice farmers?

    I notice you leave out in the second article who these scientist were and what organization was doing this research.

  8. #628
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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    I notice you leave out in the second article who these scientist were and what organization was doing this research.
    That is what the link is for.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #629
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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    So now it is the fault of rice farmers?

    I notice you leave out in the second article who these scientist were and what organization was doing this research.
    Can you tell us how who the scientists are affects the validity of the research?
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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    No.

    The scientific community is pretty unified on this, while most of the opposition seems to be funded by big business that doesn't want to have to alter its behavior.

    The winters we've been having actually support global warming predictions. The
    science predicts weird, out-of-control weather, not uniform warming. In fact, they're now talking about using the term "global weirding" instead of global warming.

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