View Poll Results: Is Global Warming a myth?

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  • Yes, explain

    52 34.44%
  • No, Explain

    99 65.56%
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Thread: Is Global Warming a myth?

  1. #611
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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    My suggestion then would be to get a copy of the all the studies referenced in the link below and study them and research their funding. You may find it a bit daunting to duplicate the decades of research, thousands of in the field data collections, and observations from space. But if you have a big enough budget and a scientific background perhaps you can duplicate their finding yourself. Of course if the scientific community is correct in their current findings, it will be too late for the earth to act upon your findings and you will have doomed future life on the planet.

    Empirical evidence that humans are causing global warming

    For myself, since I do not believe that every scientific organization of national or international standing on the planet have been conspiring for decades, I will go with their consensus.

    Best of luck to you in your scientific endeavors! Hope you do not mind if we do not wait on you to take action to protect our environment from further degradation in the meantime.
    I forgot that I need to invent a time machine so that I can put my previously mentioned climate monitoring system into place sometime around 1 million years ago.
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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Nasa does a pretty good job of explaining the science in layman's terms:

    NASA - Global Warming

    The EPA site does a solid job of breaking the state knowledge down into three categories:

    • What's Known
    • What's very likely
    • What's not certain


    State of Knowledge | Science | Climate Change | U.S. EPA
    We know what the theory is. You don't have to keep explaining it to us.

    The whole point of this thread and the debate surrounding AGW is that not everyone agrees. I know that's hard for some alarmists to accept - that some people might actually question a scientific theory - but eventually they'll just have to accept the fact that not everyone who questions AGW is a giant ignoramus, and that the debate is hardly over, despite what Al Gore has to say about it. He's not the king of science, and neither is NASA.

    By the way, which year was the hottest in the US? 1998 or 1934? Maybe you can ask NASA...

    Blogger gets hot and bothered over Nasa's climate data error | Environment | The Guardian

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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    My suggestion then would be to get a copy of the all the studies referenced in the link below and study them and research their funding. You may find it a bit daunting to duplicate the decades of research, thousands of in the field data collections, and observations from space. But if you have a big enough budget and a scientific background perhaps you can duplicate their finding yourself. Of course if the scientific community is correct in their current findings, it will be too late for the earth to act upon your findings and you will have doomed future life on the planet.

    Empirical evidence that humans are causing global warming

    For myself, since I do not believe that every scientific organization of national or international standing on the planet have been conspiring for decades, I will go with their consensus.

    Best of luck to you in your scientific endeavors! Hope you do not mind if we do not wait on you to take action to protect our environment from further degradation in the meantime.
    Those are both good references. However, the first one still tries to absolutely link Global Warming with rising CO2 levels.

    We had rising temperatures of a much larger scale between the end of the last ice age and the start of the industrial revolution, without such an increase in CO2 levels. So the link is not as concrete as some would have us think. And they do not explain how the present heating cycle started, nor how it will end.

    For many of us in the 1970's, we were instructed in other things that would affect such trends. One of which was how the melting of ice sheets by itself increases global warming.

    Ice sheets (be they polar or the continental ones like during an ice age) reflect a large amount of heat back into space. And unlike the surface they do not retain such heat. This is why a few years of increased snow fall creates glaciers.

    And once those sheets start to melt, less heat and light is reflected back into space, so the warming trend accellarates. And this can also be alleviated by the increased land being used by large plants, which captures and traps increasing amunts of CO2.

    But these are cycles that cover tens and hundreds of thousands of years, over an area the size of our planet. For anybody to claim they really understand them is extreme vanity.
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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oozlefinch View Post
    Those are both good references. However, the first one still tries to absolutely link Global Warming with rising CO2 levels.

    We had rising temperatures of a much larger scale between the end of the last ice age and the start of the industrial revolution, without such an increase in CO2 levels.
    Yes we did have previous warming periods before the industrial revolution but they have been attributed to increased volcanic activity and the release of increased CO2. We have had no such increased volcanic activity during this warming period. But we have had man-made sources of CO2 added to the ambient levels that dwarf what the volcanoes released back then.

    "Today we’re speaking with climate scientist Peter Huybers of Harvard. Dr. Huybers received a 2009 genius grant from the MacArthur Foundation. He spoke with EarthSky about why the last ice age ended 12,000 years ago.

    Peter Huybers: I think ice ages are really the outstanding mystery in Earth sciences presently.

    Scientists have scrutinized the evidence for ice ages in Earth’s past. Dr. Huyber’s recent research focused on one possible factor triggering the end of an ice age – volcanic activity.

    Peter Huybers: The major finding was that there was a dramatic uptick in volcanic activity during the last deglaciation.

    Volcanoes can cause carbon dioxide, or CO2 – a greenhouse gas – to increase in Earth’s atmosphere.

    Twelve thousand years ago, volcanoes might have caused warming and melting ice. In some places on Earth, melting ice sheets might have taken a load off rock below. That might have increased volcanic activity even more – which means more CO2 – and more warming.

    Peter Huybers: In so much as volcanoes played an important role in providing a feedback in past climate, we can then contrast that with the even much stronger control of CO2, which humans are exerting.

    In other words, volcanoes at the end of the last ice age were releasing about three-tenths of a gigaton of CO2 each year. Today, humans are releasing about a hundred times more."

    Peter Huybers: 'Ice ages are the outstanding mystery in Earth sciences' | EarthSky
    Last edited by Catawba; 02-20-10 at 12:10 AM.
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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Yes we did have previous warming periods before the industrial revolution but they have been attributed to increased volcanic activity and the release of increased CO2. We have had no such increased volcanic activity during this warming period. But we have had man-made sources of CO2 added to the ambient levels that dwarf what the volcanoes released back then.

    "Today we’re speaking with climate scientist Peter Huybers of Harvard. Dr. Huybers received a 2009 genius grant from the MacArthur Foundation. He spoke with EarthSky about why the last ice age ended 12,000 years ago.

    Peter Huybers: I think ice ages are really the outstanding mystery in Earth sciences presently.

    Scientists have scrutinized the evidence for ice ages in Earth’s past. Dr. Huyber’s recent research focused on one possible factor triggering the end of an ice age – volcanic activity.

    Peter Huybers: The major finding was that there was a dramatic uptick in volcanic activity during the last deglaciation.

    Volcanoes can cause carbon dioxide, or CO2 – a greenhouse gas – to increase in Earth’s atmosphere.

    Twelve thousand years ago, volcanoes might have caused warming and melting ice. In some places on Earth, melting ice sheets might have taken a load off rock below. That might have increased volcanic activity even more – which means more CO2 – and more warming.

    Peter Huybers: In so much as volcanoes played an important role in providing a feedback in past climate, we can then contrast that with the even much stronger control of CO2, which humans are exerting.

    In other words, volcanoes at the end of the last ice age were releasing about three-tenths of a gigaton of CO2 each year. Today, humans are releasing about a hundred times more."

    Peter Huybers: 'Ice ages are the outstanding mystery in Earth sciences' | EarthSky
    I see you're still trying to get pigs to fly.

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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    I see you're still trying to get pigs to fly.
    LOL! Perhaps more open minded lurkers will be able to learn something. I have grandchildren, so its a more pressing topic to me than who is ahead a point or two in the most recent poll as far as who will be president in 2012.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    LOL! Perhaps more open minded lurkers will be able to learn something. I have grandchildren, so its a more pressing topic to me than who is ahead a point or two in the most recent poll as far as who will be president in 2012.
    Your hubris is quite impressive.

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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    I see you're still trying to get pigs to fly.
    I have to agree. Because at least during my lifetime, the eruption of volcanos tends to be followed by further cooling.

    So they both warm and cool the earth at the same time, interesting. I guess they are like giant thermos bottles.
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. - John Stuart Mill

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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oozlefinch View Post

    So they both warm and cool the earth at the same time.
    Not at the same time, but yes they can do either. Only problem is there has been no major volcano activity during this warming period.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Not at the same time, but yes they can do either. Only problem is there has been no major volcano activity during this warming period.
    Thanks to you and various other poster's links, I've taken in some interesting information on the AGW/ACC issue lately.

    But not enough proof to counter my ingrained skepticism of the theory.

    I view it as an example of the infamous “slippery slope” argument/fallacy.
    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope]Slippery slope - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    If we don’t do X, Y1,Y2, and Y3, followed by ever increasing Y’s, will occur.

    Now, I am aware some consider enough proof exists that not doing X will cause Y1, Y2, Y3…..and so on.

    But I have not seen such.

    Or rather, the proof that some claim exists has come under suspicion.

    I would not go as far as some, and claim the argument for doing X is completely dead…but I consider it damaged.

    Of course, I am biased because I have always been skeptical of it.
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    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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