View Poll Results: Is Global Warming a myth?

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  • Yes, explain

    52 34.44%
  • No, Explain

    99 65.56%
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Thread: Is Global Warming a myth?

  1. #421
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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    I tried to check all those links for links to reports, but got lost in one of them which appeared to be a blog linking to other blog articles in the same blog...

    However, most appear to be "X says...Y1, Y2, Y3." But no links to studies/data that proves what "X" is saying to be true.

    I did find this, but haven't perused it to check for potential errors.
    What I posted from the Science Magazine was a report written by the actual authors themselves rather than a story about the author's findings. You might also try contacting Barnett himself via the email address listed there for further information about their methods used in the 2005 report.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  2. #422
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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Well, of course - your zeal for your faith dictates that you ignore anything that runs contrary to same.

    Having said that, you can now answer the questions.
    What makes your opinion more valuable than the experts I have posted.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #423
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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I again thank you for your opinion, but I will go with the reports by the experts I have posted above.
    The problem I have with the current process for proving ACC is that far to much political influence is involved.

    The opportunities for political power gain seem obvious to me, if you take as a given some of the claims that ACC supporters maintain.

    Thus, the fact that politics and ACC seem very closely intertwined leads me to the conclusion that I canít trust ACC (as I already didnít trust politics).

    The opportunities for ACC science (or pseudo-science, as some claim) to be corrupted by politics is massive.

    I suppose that ACC science would somehow have to be divorced from political connections to eliminate that issue I have.

    But the thing is, in the current scientific climate, you must have money to do science, and politics/politicians have control over a lot of money they can throw at things. The opportunities for corruption, again, seem obvious to me.
    Education.

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  4. #424
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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    What makes your opinion more valuable than the experts I have posted.
    I'm sorry - I asked you two questions regarung your opinion:

    If there has been no significant warming for the last 15 years, how can the actual warming be faster than predicted?

    Was no warming predicted from 1995-2010?
    You haven't answered them.

    And, the fact that you ignore anything that runs contrary to your opinion speaks volumes.

  5. #425
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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    [quote=The Mark;1058566484]
    The problem I have with the current process for proving ACC is that far to much political influence is involved.
    I agree, that is why I have not posted any political opinion.

    The opportunities for political power gain seem obvious to me, if you take as a given some of the claims that ACC supporters maintain.

    Thus, the fact that politics and ACC seem very closely intertwined leads me to the conclusion that I canít trust ACC (as I already didnít trust politics).

    The opportunities for ACC science (or pseudo-science, as some claim) to be corrupted by politics is massive.

    I suppose that ACC science would somehow have to be divorced from political connections to eliminate that issue I have.

    But the thing is, in the current scientific climate, you must have money to do science, and politics/politicians have control over a lot of money they can throw at things. The opportunities for corruption, again, seem obvious to me.
    The consensus is among 180 countries around the world. I fail to see how they would have colluded to try to scam, or why. It would be the biggest conspiracy in the history of the planet. It does not seem logical to me.

    If we are going to err, I prefer it to be in a direction that does not risk future life on the planet as we know it.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post

    And, the fact that you ignore anything that runs contrary to your opinion speaks volumes.
    You have provided no proof of your claims, only your opinion. If you have some evidence to back up your opinion, please post it, so we might review it.
    Last edited by Catawba; 02-16-10 at 06:03 PM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    What I posted from the Science Magazine was a report written by the actual authors themselves rather than a story about the author's findings. You might also try contacting Barnett himself via the email address listed there for further information about their methods used in the 2005 report.
    You mean this?

    From this link:
    Detection of Anthropogenic Climate Change in the World's Oceans
    Tim P. Barnett,* David W. Pierce, Reiner Schnur
    Large-scale increases in the heat content of the world's oceans have been observed to occur over the last 45 years. The horizontal and temporal character of these changes has been closely replicated by the state-of-the-art Parallel Climate Model (PCM) forced by observed and estimated anthropogenic gases. Application of optimal detection methodology shows that the model-produced signals are indistinguishable from the observations at the 0.05 confidence level. Further, the chances of either the anthropogenic or observed signals being produced by the PCM as a result of natural, internal forcing alone are less than 5%. This suggests that the observed ocean heat-content changes are consistent with those expected from anthropogenic forcing, which broadens the basis for claims that an anthropogenic signal has been detected in the global climate system. Additionally, the requirement that modeled ocean heat uptakes match observations puts a strong, new constraint on anthropogenically forced climate models. It is unknown if the current generation of climate models, other than the PCM, meet this constraint.
    Climate Research Division, Scripps Institution of Oceanography, University of California
    I can't read the whole thing, even via the Read the Full Text link, because said link requires a userid/passwd. I could sign up, but I don't want to atm. Maybe later.

    Further there is another issue that I have. In many cases, I see references to a "model" of some sort. In this case, the "state-of-the-art Parallel Climate Model (PCM)".
    Link to that by the way: Parallel Climate Model

    As I am far from understanding the math and physics involved in those models, another potential point of validity failure appears to me.

    If enough pressure (as in, peer/political/supervisor/monetary) is placed upon scientists doing this modeling, what is to stop them from tweaking the model to cause an outcome that is in line with what they wish?
    And since few outside the science involved understand the math and physics involved (the physics itself being a theory as well, and thus subject to being disproved, although unlikely), it seems possible that no one would call them on it.

    Which, according to some, is what happened.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The consensus is among 180 countries around the world. I fail to see how they would have colluded to try to scam, or why. It would be the biggest conspiracy in the history of the planet. It does not seem logical to me.
    It does seem unlikely that 180 separate countries would plan a campaign to convince the entire world of something.
    But it's not 180 countries, it's a small portion of the population of each country, notably those who support the ACC theory.

    Still, it would seem unlikely.

    It might be that collections of politicians in each country signed onto the theory because it would allow them to promote their political views with an added "we all gonna die if ya don't do this".

    It might be that they are all correct, and all the change they predict will happen.

    The key point for me, is that I don't know. Of course, that's the case with everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    If we are going to err, I prefer it to be in a direction that does not risk future life on the planet as we know it.
    But as I understand it, BOTH routes (or general pathways) proposed MIGHT cause what you don't want to risk.

    Bla.
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    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  9. #429
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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    You mean this?
    Yes.

    From this link:I can't read the whole thing, even via the Read the Full Text link, because said link requires a userid/passwd. I could sign up, but I don't want to atm. Maybe later.
    Further there is another issue that I have. In many cases, I see references to a "model" of some sort. In this case, the "state-of-the-art Parallel Climate Model (PCM)".
    Link to that by the way: Parallel Climate Model

    As I am far from understanding the math and physics involved in those models, another potential point of validity failure appears to me.

    If enough pressure (as in, peer/political/supervisor/monetary) is placed upon scientists doing this modeling, what is to stop them from tweaking the model to cause an outcome that is in line with what they wish?
    And since few outside the science involved understand the math and physics involved (the physics itself being a theory as well, and thus subject to being disproved, although unlikely), it seems possible that no one would call them on it.

    Which, according to some, is what happened.
    All the evidence based on real world observations and analysis I have seen points to the opposite conclusion, that the models have been too conservative, and GW is happening more quickly than predicted by the models, as I tried to show here:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/66084-global-warming-myth-42.html#post1058566336
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #430
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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Yes.
    Excellent.
    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    All the evidence based on real world observations and analysis I have seen points to the opposite conclusion, that the models have been too conservative, and GW is happening more quickly than predicted by the models, as I tried to show here:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/66084-global-warming-myth-42.html#post1058566336
    Yes, I read a little bit of those links.

    What some have contended, or likely will contend if they haven't yet, is that, as more negative info (as in, proving the "untruth" of the ACC theory) shows up each month or so, the ACC supporters are attempting to force the issue by predicting that the threat is greater or closer than ever thought.

    Again, I just don't know.

    But, unlike you, I tend to err on the other side.
    Last edited by The Mark; 02-16-10 at 06:21 PM.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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