View Poll Results: Is Global Warming a myth?

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  • Yes, explain

    52 34.44%
  • No, Explain

    99 65.56%
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Thread: Is Global Warming a myth?

  1. #351
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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Professor Jones also conceded the possibility that the world was warmer in medieval times than now – suggesting global warming may not be a man-made phenomenon.

    And he said that for the past 15 years there has been no ‘statistically significant’ warming.
    Man is not the only source of C02. If there were a large release from a volcano, or increased solar activity, that could also cause global warming, which undoubtedly has happened in the past. The distinction during this warming period, is there are no known volcano or solar events of significance that caused it this time, only man's C02 contribution in addition to the ambient natural sources that have overwhelmed the earth's capacity to sequester it.
    Last edited by Catawba; 02-15-10 at 09:13 PM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  2. #352
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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Lets take a look at the facts, all this climategate stuff aside.

    Since 1900, we have been spewing out more and more CO2, correct?

    Now, I fully agree, the amount of CO2 we've thrown out cannot substantially warm the Earth, but it can cause a very small amount of warming, globally. We've also had our ozone layer depleted in certain areas, adding to the amount of energy that reaches the surface of the Earth.

    As I've said before, the most dangerous greenhouse gas is water vapor. The amounts that naturally occur through evaporation allow enough heat to remain in the biosphere so live can be sustained. But, when we increase the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere, as we obviously have, you increase the rate of evaporation very slightly. This in turn releases a tiny bit more water vapor then is the norm for our environment. Because of this, temperatures rise, because more energy is being trapped inside the biosphere. This in turn causes another small increase in evaporation, which forces another increase in temperature.

    This is what's known as a positive feedback loop. Its like a human who can't sweat when exercising. Your body keeps heating up, and heating up, and it can't get rid of the heat fast enough. The checks and balances of the environment cannot stop this process.

    What ends up happening, is over very long periods of time, temperature increases slowly, but surely. Given the length of time this takes, you could take any 40 year temperature interval, and you wouldn't find the slightest hint of temperature change. Regardless of what the data is saying, this is happening, because, quite frankly, the logic is too sound to be wrong.

    These changes won't happen fast enough for them to kill off humans, or to do anything major to effect our way of live. What will happen, however, is other animals won't be able to adapt, because natural selection cannot work at the same pace as the climate change.

    This is another problem many people don't understand. A short time for Earth means thousands and thousands of years. In relation to the tim Earth has been around (4.6 billion years) humans have been around for maybe 10,000 years. So, for us, the climate change is going to take a very long time. but we have technology, we have adapted the Earth to fit our needs. Other animals, such as bears, and fish, can't change fast enough to match the pace of global warming.

    Do you understand now? It is undoubtedly happening, but not very fast, and probably not fast enough to effect us for a long time to come. The recent snow storm on the East Coast proves this process is taking place, even as we discuss it.

    I personally don't know what we can really do about it though. We can try to decrease the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere, but that wouldn't do very much, as it has already started the reaction. We can try to decrease the amount of water vapor, and return it to normal levels, but we would have to pour trillions of dollars into that, and keep water vapor at a steady level for decades to stop this. And even then, if we are even slightly off from the original number, the process will continue, or we might start an ice age because we removed too much water vapor.

    That's my take on things, but again, I might be wrong, but that would also mean my books are wrong, and their logic, and they seem pretty solid.
    Excellent post!!!!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #353
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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    There's your problem. You assume its a linear process. Thats one of the hard things in terms of understanding the problem in environmental studies. There are so many variables which have various input into the equation.

    If you understand my explanation, then you obviously would know that the process is in fact taking place. And if you read my explanation, you would have seen how I pointed out this process would take hundreds of years to become truly apparent. The recent snow storm is just a small part of an incredibly complex biosphere.

    And don't waste your time playing the inexperience card on me, it just makes you look like you are desperate to prove yourself smarter then a high schooler.
    Okay, you've totally misunderstood something. Let's start over...

    1. You described what was basically the greenhouse effect.

    2. You inferred that human CO2 emissions are demonstrably enhancing this effect and causing monsoons.

    3. I asked you to provide evidence of this.

    4. You failed.

  4. #354
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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Smug teenager,

    I understand your explanation perfectly. What you don't seem to understand is that there is currently no way to determine if the process you describe has had a measurable effect on global climate or temperatures. I understand the theoretical implications of your explanation (assuming a linear progression), but there is no real world data to support your inferences.

    From,

    A person who actually understands science.
    He is trying, very politely I think, to explain the science, to those that do not understand, how man-made sources of C02, according to scientific methodology, which have no bearing on hacked emails from some other scientists, combine with natural sources to overwhelm the earth's natural ability to sequester it. The effects are measurable now and actionable, which is why action has been taken.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  5. #355
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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Lets take a look at the facts, all this climategate stuff aside.

    Since 1900, we have been spewing out more and more CO2, correct?

    Now, I fully agree, the amount of CO2 we've thrown out cannot substantially warm the Earth, but it can cause a very small amount of warming, globally. We've also had our ozone layer depleted in certain areas, adding to the amount of energy that reaches the surface of the Earth.

    As I've said before, the most dangerous greenhouse gas is water vapor. The amounts that naturally occur through evaporation allow enough heat to remain in the biosphere so live can be sustained. But, when we increase the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere, as we obviously have, you increase the rate of evaporation very slightly. This in turn releases a tiny bit more water vapor then is the norm for our environment. Because of this, temperatures rise, because more energy is being trapped inside the biosphere. This in turn causes another small increase in evaporation, which forces another increase in temperature.

    This is what's known as a positive feedback loop. Its like a human who can't sweat when exercising. Your body keeps heating up, and heating up, and it can't get rid of the heat fast enough. The checks and balances of the environment cannot stop this process.

    What ends up happening, is over very long periods of time, temperature increases slowly, but surely. Given the length of time this takes, you could take any 40 year temperature interval, and you wouldn't find the slightest hint of temperature change. Regardless of what the data is saying, this is happening, because, quite frankly, the logic is too sound to be wrong.

    These changes won't happen fast enough for them to kill off humans, or to do anything major to effect our way of live. What will happen, however, is other animals won't be able to adapt, because natural selection cannot work at the same pace as the climate change.

    This is another problem many people don't understand. A short time for Earth means thousands and thousands of years. In relation to the tim Earth has been around (4.6 billion years) humans have been around for maybe 10,000 years. So, for us, the climate change is going to take a very long time. but we have technology, we have adapted the Earth to fit our needs. Other animals, such as bears, and fish, can't change fast enough to match the pace of global warming.

    Do you understand now? It is undoubtedly happening, but not very fast, and probably not fast enough to effect us for a long time to come. The recent snow storm on the East Coast proves this process is taking place, even as we discuss it.

    I personally don't know what we can really do about it though. We can try to decrease the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere, but that wouldn't do very much, as it has already started the reaction. We can try to decrease the amount of water vapor, and return it to normal levels, but we would have to pour trillions of dollars into that, and keep water vapor at a steady level for decades to stop this. And even then, if we are even slightly off from the original number, the process will continue, or we might start an ice age because we removed too much water vapor.

    That's my take on things, but again, I might be wrong, but that would also mean my books are wrong, and their logic, and they seem pretty solid.
    Dude, I've already heard Al Gore explain this a million times. You're just repeating the same tired AGW mantra over and over again. I'm glad you just learned about the greenhouse effect in high-school, but it's old news to me...

  6. #356
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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    He is trying, very politely I think, to explain the science, to those that do not understand, how man-made sources of C02, according to scientific methodology, which have no bearing on hacked emails from some other scientists, combine with natural sources to overwhelm the earth's natural ability to sequester it.
    Yes, it's a very nice theory. One I've heard a million times already and understand perfectly. I'm just waiting for him (or anyone else) to provide some evidence that human CO2 emissions are having a measurable effect on this process. Since there is no credible evidence to support that inference, he just regurgitates AGW theory from his textbook and pretends he's proven something.

    The effects are measurable now and actionable, which is why action has been taken.
    Then give me a study which has proven human CO2 emissions are having a measurable impact on global climate and temperatures. One will suffice...

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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    I'm sorry, but I gave as thorough an explanation as I possibly could. You just ignored all of it. How about you address my post, and then I'll address yours? Because, infalliable logic trumps any source providable.
    So you know more than this GW scientist?

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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    It is listed as just one of many other components of their analysis.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1058562821
    But which ones do they use the most? I would say when it comes to the environment the EPA would hold the IPCC in high standard.

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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    No, what we have is a consensus in the scientific world that is being acted on.

    The ones that think the whole world is conspiring with Al Gore is where the conspiracy theories come into play. But hey, some people still do not believe in evolution. So what you are you gonna do!
    I say it is conspiracy for co2 will not kill us all.

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    Re: Is Global Warming a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Man is not the only source of C02. If there were a large release from a volcano, or increased solar activity, that could also cause global warming, which undoubtedly has happened in the past. The distinction during this warming period, is there are no known volcano or solar events of significance that caused it this time, only man's C02 contribution in addition to the ambient natural sources that have overwhelmed the earth's capacity to sequester it.
    Thats not what this man says and he was one of the scientist involved in the climategate E-mails.

    Now you know more than these GW scientists?

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