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Is Social Justice legitimate?

Is Social Justice legitimate?

  • Yes, for equality of opportunity

    Votes: 11 47.8%

  • Yes, for equality of outcome

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Yes, for wealth redistribution

    Votes: 4 17.4%

  • Yes, to reduce inequality

    Votes: 6 26.1%

  • No, wealth redistribution is bad

    Votes: 9 39.1%

  • No, it extends the utilitarianism and social contracts in un-useful ways

    Votes: 7 30.4%

  • Other...

    Votes: 4 17.4%
  • Total voters
    23
liblady said:
i don't know of any push for equality of outcome.
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I want to say that justification for the progressive tax system is done using this argument. Don't know if I can make that stick, however.
 
reefedjib said:
I want to say that justification for the progressive tax system is done using this argument. Don't know if I can make that stick, however.
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Actually, no... the progressive tax system is based on the idea that from each accroding to his means should be transfered to each according to his needs.

After all, the "rich" dont "need" all that money, and the "poor" wont vote for anyone that doesn't offer hand-outs.
 
Goobieman said:
Actually, no... the progressive tax system is based on the idea that from each accroding to his means should be transfered to each according to his needs.

After all, the "rich" dont "need" all that money, and the "poor" wont vote for anyone that doesn't offer hand-outs.
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Kinda of like the elderly, when it comes to Medicare. I totally get it.
 
reefedjib said:
I want to say that justification for the progressive tax system is done using this argument. Don't know if I can make that stick, however.
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There is no justification for the "progresssive" tax system. It violates the Fourteenth Amendment.
 
reefedjib said:
Kinda of like the elderly, when it comes to Medicare. I totally get it.
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Yes - the best way to get the elderly to vote for someone else is to mention that you want to do anything with medicare/SocSec that might be remotely related to a cut in benefits.

For that matter, it need not be any sort of 'cut' at all - it only need be someting that your opponent can mis-charaterize as such.
 
Goobieman said:
Yes - the best way to get the elderly to vote for someone else is to mention that you want to do anything with medicare/SocSec that might be remotely related to a cut in benefits.

For that matter, it need not be any sort of 'cut' at all - it only need be someting that your opponent can mis-charaterize as such.
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It is illuminating that it is not just those on the left that want handouts. Is it Social Justice?
 
Goobieman said:
Actually, no... the progressive tax system is based on the idea that from each accroding to his means should be transfered to each according to his needs.

After all, the "rich" dont "need" all that money, and the "poor" wont vote for anyone that doesn't offer hand-outs.
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reefedjib said:
Kinda of like the elderly, when it comes to Medicare. I totally get it.
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Goobieman said:
Yes - the best way to get the elderly to vote for someone else is to mention that you want to do anything with medicare/SocSec that might be remotely related to a cut in benefits.

For that matter, it need not be any sort of 'cut' at all - it only need be someting that your opponent can mis-charaterize as such.
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reefedjib said:
It is illuminating that it is not just those on the left that want handouts. Is it Social Justice?
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Goobieman said:
Not sure I follow you...
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Many elderly are on the right, and they want to protect their hand-outs.
 
Is getting paid 10 million dollars after bankrupting the company you were supposed to be leading legitimate? Most groups are out to grab a bigger slice of the pie one way or another. The rich and poor are not divided by their desire to hog more wealth, but rather their skill at it.
 
Goobieman said:
The part about the elderly leaning right.
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I am not very good at Googling election data. I was searching on "election results by age" and what not. I kept getting news stories and no statistical data site. I finally searched on "exit polls" and picked CNN.

Election Center 2008: Primary Results - Elections & Politics news from CNN.com

This is for Virginia. It is for the 2008 primaries. If you look at the relative percentages by age, you will see that Democrats have:

Total Voters: 977,586
  • 17-29: 14%
  • 30-44: 27%
  • 45-59: 34%
  • 60+: 25%
So number of voters, 60+: 244,397 or 62% of the total voters 60+

and the Republicans have:

Total Voters: 465,831
  • 17-29: 11%
  • 30-44: 26%
  • 45-59: 31%
  • 60+: 32%
So number of voters, 60+: 149,066 or 38% of the total voters 60+

Understanding it is just a Primary, it seems Dems outweigh GOP by 3 to 2.

My point is that a large number of that 38% elderly GOP wants to protect Medicare for themselves.
 
reefedjib said:
I am not very good at Googling election data. I was searching on "election results by age" and what not. I kept getting news stories and no statistical data site. I finally searched on "exit polls" and picked CNN....
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Your sample is incredibly small and doesnt show what you need it to show.
 
Goobieman said:
Your sample is incredibly small and doesnt show what you need it to show.
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Horse****. It demonstrates and 2 to 3 balance of elderly GOP to Dem voters out of close to a million voters. I would say that meets my observation that:

Many elderly are on the right
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How many? 40%.
 
reefedjib said:
Horse****
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One state turnout for one primary election doesn't prove a thing about the politcal leanings of any national demographic.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
A socialist telling someone else they don't have original ideas...
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I didn't say you didn't have original ideas. I said Libertarians simply provide none and complain. Learn to read and pick up a book on socialism while you're at it. You might learn what it actually is. K thanks!
 
Hatuey said:
That is because a Libertarian is like the angry 15 year old in the room who never has any ideas of his own but thinks everyone's ideas are ****ty. They're teens pretending to be grown ups and in some cases grown ups who have yet to realize they're not teens anymore. I guess it's just easier to talk a big game when you don't have any significant amount of constituents.
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that is really a bit silly
 
TurtleDude said:
that is really a bit silly
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Do you have any other theories for why there isn't a single Libertarian party candidate in Congress? Oh I know. Everybody hates freedom and liberty and is really really stupid.
 
Hatuey said:
Do you have any other theories for why there isn't a single Libertarian party candidate in Congress? Oh I know. Everybody hates freedom and liberty and is really really stupid.
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The dems did a great job in addicting able bodied people to government nanny state handouts starting in the 1930's. The right did a good job in convincing people that some kinds of social freedom are bad too-mainly in the 1960s. A grand conspiracy against liberty.
 
Hatuey said:
Do you have any other theories for why there isn't a single Libertarian party candidate in Congress? Oh I know. Everybody hates freedom and liberty and is really really stupid.
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It's probably much more likely because Libertarians are not promising free taxpayer money to the charity cause of their choice, be it personal charity or corporate charity.
 
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Hatuey said:
Do you have any other theories for why there isn't a single Libertarian party candidate in Congress? Oh I know. Everybody hates freedom and liberty and is really really stupid.
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No... that explains the number of Democrats in Congress.
 
Hatuey said:
I said Libertarians simply provide none and complain.
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Right.

The idea is that socialist suck huge weinie and so do their ideas, and because they need to use machine guns to implement their ideas, they have to lie all the god damned time.

Socialists whine that libertarians "don't have ideas" simply because the ideas libertarians have work, and don't need machine guns.

The routine complaint from socialists, of course, is that no one else has any ideas because, well, what the hell, only socialists have brains. They don't use them except to construct elaborate lies to cover the failures of their earlier elaborate lies, but what the hell, the socialists believe only those elitists controlling their ideas can think.

Naturally, every time a person threatens the socialist order of things, the very first attack from the socialists is "they're stupid, they don't have any ideas"

Reagan was "senile"
Dan Quayle was "stupid"
GW Bush was a "moron", "idiot", "fool", and clearly dumber than Al Gore or Kerry.
Sarah Palin is just some hick redneck broad from the Alaskan boondocks.

But the Messiah! Well! He be a Hahvahd Law perfesser, don't ya know? He's gots dem ideas, and well, ya know, if it weren't for those dang stupid Republicans he'd have all those laws passed and we'd be rescued! Nobahdy be smahta than Obama!
 
Hatuey said:
Do you have any other theories for why there isn't a single Libertarian party candidate in Congress? Oh I know. Everybody hates freedom and liberty and is really really stupid.
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Libertarianism tells people they have to be adults.

Republicans and especially Democrats tell people they can be lazy and the politician will still love them and care for them.

People that don't want to grow up are legion. Adults are rare. It's no mystery why libertarians don't win elective office.
 
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