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Where does personal identity come from?

Where does personal identity come from?


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Kandahar

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What do you think is the basis for personal identity? What makes you you, and not someone else?
 
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Senses and genetics.

People are predisposed to certain behaviors and personality traits.

But twins have the same genes...do you believe they have the same identity?

As for senses...what if I could mimic everything that you see, hear, taste, smell, and touch? Would you and I be the same person then?
 
Genetics and environment.
 
But twins have the same genes...do you believe they have the same identity?

As for senses...what if I could mimic everything that you see, hear, taste, smell, and touch? Would you and I be the same person then?

They will be predisposed to the same things but in development they can be affected by their environment in totally different ways.
Subtle differences can change a person in the long run.
 
I have self-awareness that tells me I am I. In my case, as a human, this is rooted in my consciousness. Yet a dog also has a similar self-awareness and knows he is he. The difference is that I can think about myself and make statements like I am I, whereas the dog only has awareness but not self-referentiality.
 
I am going to go with other, I think I am who I am because I will it to be so. Ultimately my identity is my choice.
 
I am going to go with other, I think I am who I am because I will it to be so. Ultimately my identity is my choice.

No it is not. You are you regardless. Don't like yourself? Change yourself but it is still you. You are changing the wants and needs and behaviors of yourself, but your identity remains unchanged.
 
Depends on what you mean by "identity"? The individual proteins that come together to form the features that is my body? Or the way I act and intereact with those around me? I think of "identity" as perceptions, of myself by me and by others I come in contact with.
 
No it is not. You are you regardless. Don't like yourself? Change yourself but it is still you. You are changing the wants and needs and behaviors of yourself, but your identity remains unchanged.

I am not so sure about that. I have seen situations where there is some head trauma, someone goes off to war, or whatever, and comes back changed. Whether it is PTSD or a case like [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage"]Phineas Gauge[/ame]. People often respond with phrases like "you seem different" or "you aren't you anymore."

Personality, I think, is a majority component of identity and it is something that a person has a great amount (but not total) of personal control over.
 
I am not so sure about that. I have seen situations where there is some head trauma, someone goes off to war, or whatever, and comes back changed. Whether it is PTSD or a case like Phineas Gauge. People often respond with phrases like "you seem different" or "you aren't you anymore."

Personality, I think, is a majority component of identity and it is something that a person has a great amount (but not total) of personal control over.

I think of it as the identity clothed or decorated. The core identity, even in the case of head trauma, is unchanged. But the behaviors, which dress or decorate the core identity, may very well change dramatically.

I just saw your comment on personality, so I think we may be saying the same things.
 
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Well, I thought about it and after thinking of identity theft, I think I see what you might be getting at. The information that makes up an individual. I was thinking of social identity, which I define as personality.

I think personality is still a huge piece of that though, but ultimately, the question is who owns the information of that person.

Personally, I think it is that person, and that means everything about them, from their DNA and soul on up to personality, unless that person agrees to give away those rights. This is a part of our right to privacy.
 
Well, I thought about it and after thinking of identity theft, I think I see what you might be getting at. The information that makes up an individual. I was thinking of social identity, which I define as personality.

I think personality is still a huge piece of that though, but ultimately, the question is who owns the information of that person.

Personally, I think it is that person, and that means everything about them, from their DNA and soul on up to personality, unless that person agrees to give away those rights. This is a part of our right to privacy.

That's starting to get at it. I am ignoring personality (happy, thoughtful, etc) and physical characteristics (fat, missing a leg, etc) and focusing on self-identity. When I say I am I, I am referring to my self-awareness. If I do lose a leg to an IED explosion, I am still I. If I am bipolar and my mood and personality changes constantly, I am still I.

Surrounding my self-identity is my personality and then my physical characteristics. These may make up my persona and people may assign them to my public identity (Rob, oh yeah, he's the fat bipolar guy who is running a political party). But none of that affects my self-identity.
 
That's starting to get at it. I am ignoring personality (happy, thoughtful, etc) and physical characteristics (fat, missing a leg, etc) and focusing on self-identity. When I say I am I, I am referring to my self-awareness. If I do lose a leg to an IED explosion, I am still I. If I am bipolar and my mood and personality changes constantly, I am still I.

Surrounding my self-identity is my personality and then my physical characteristics. These may make up my persona and people may assign them to my public identity (Rob, oh yeah, he's the fat bipolar guy who is running a political party). But none of that affects my self-identity.

I think the two are mixed and cannot be separated.
 
I People often respond with phrases like "you seem different" or "you aren't you anymore."

It seems to me that this is an example of the perceptions of others, and has nothing to do with what is "you". I don't see myself as different segments of my personality, but as the sum total. When I was young, I was silly and carefree, over-dominated by my emotions, and rather self-centered in many of my actions. At this age, I take life much more seriously, I consider the needs and feelings of others much more readily, and I contemplate my course of action regularly. These are both me, just different stages of my character development.
 
But twins have the same genes...do you believe they have the same identity?

As for senses...what if I could mimic everything that you see, hear, taste, smell, and touch? Would you and I be the same person then?
they do not have the same identity. i am married to an identical twin.
 
I have self-awareness that tells me I am I. In my case, as a human, this is rooted in my consciousness. Yet a dog also has a similar self-awareness and knows he is he. The difference is that I can think about myself and make statements like I am I, whereas the dog only has awareness but not self-referentiality.
a dog is self aware?
 
an infant isn't self aware, i don't think a dog is either. dogs don't make choices.

But a dog knows its name. Comes when called.
 
Yeah, I think dogs have "pack" awareness. They respond to their individual names, but consider themselves (insomuch as a dog can consider;)) a member of a group.
 
My genes, my experiences, and my interpretations of my own experiences and of those around me.
 
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