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Where does personal identity come from?

Where does personal identity come from?


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that's not self awareness. that's responding to a command.

Well, it seems to have a sense of self. I don't know if it is self-awareness.
 
conditioned choices, maybe. their behavior is instinctual.

What choices do we make that aren't conditioned? We're conditioned from birth. Only we call it 'learning'. We also make choices based solely on instinct.
 
What choices do we make that aren't conditioned? We're conditioned from birth. Only we call it 'learning'. We also make choices based solely on instinct.
a dog can't choose what to think, or when to think it.
 
a dog can't choose what to think, or when to think it.

Just out of curiosity, You know this... how?

I'm not saying they can or cannot. What I am saying that until I'm inside a dog's head, I'm really never gonna know. And I'm curious how others are able to make such statements without having been inside the brain of the animal of which they speak.

And, you stated they cannot make choices, THAT is what I was disputing. They most certainly can, and do.
 
Just out of curiosity, You know this... how?

I'm not saying they can or cannot. What I am saying that until I'm inside a dog's head, I'm really never gonna know. And I'm curious how others are able to make such statements without having been inside the brain of the animal of which they speak.

And, you stated they cannot make choices, THAT is what I was disputing. They most certainly can, and do.
true, i can't know for certain. but i don't think a dog, on its own, can choose when to have dinner, or choose when to go to bed. they are driven by instinct.
 
Who we are is determined by the incredibly complex and diverse branching of decisions we've made (and have had made for us, which would include both genetics and environment) in the past. What we have decided to do in the past defines who we are and what we are likely to choose to do in the future.
 
true, i can't know for certain. but i don't think a dog, on its own, can choose when to have dinner, or choose when to go to bed. they are driven by instinct.

They eat when they are hungry, much like we do. They sleep when they are tired, much like we do. My parents dog chooses, all by himself, when to go to bed. He trots off to his kennel whenever he's ready. There's food down all day long, they decide when they want to eat and they eat when they are hungry. These actions are no different than our own at the very basic level.

Do they have the complex thinking that we do? No, I don't believe that dogs do. But I also do not believe them to be some mindless automatons. They make choices for themselves. Complex choices such as determining if the weather is too bad to actually make it up the hill? Doubtful. But choices nonetheless.
 

Update. The previous link contains:
Humans are not the only creatures who are self-aware. Thus far, there is evidence that bottlenose dolphins, some apes, and elephants have the capacity to be self-aware. Recent studies from the Goethe University Frankfurt show that magpies may also possess self-awareness. Common speculation suggests that some other animals are self-aware.
 
They eat when they are hungry, much like we do. They sleep when they are tired, much like we do. My parents dog chooses, all by himself, when to go to bed. He trots off to his kennel whenever he's ready. There's food down all day long, they decide when they want to eat and they eat when they are hungry. These actions are no different than our own at the very basic level.

Do they have the complex thinking that we do? No, I don't believe that dogs do. But I also do not believe them to be some mindless automatons. They make choices for themselves. Complex choices such as determining if the weather is too bad to actually make it up the hill? Doubtful. But choices nonetheless.
not mindless, of course, but not self aware. dogs don't make judgements, nor do they reason, at least i don't think they do.


people argue this both ways.
 
Well that is where we will have to disagree. I don't think identity changes. YOu are who you are. You don't become someone else.

I think attributes might change, but someone's identity is still their identity. There is an immutable part and a variable part.
 
I think attributes might change, but someone's identity is still their identity. There is an immutable part and a variable part.

EXACTLY. I view the immutable part as your identity and the variable part as your personality.
 
I think the information pattern in my brain is the only thing that could logically make me me. It can't be genetics; if I have a twin or clone myself, we're still different people. It can't be individual cells or molecules in our body; those are dying and being replaced all the time. And I don't even think it's our sensory perception, as you could theoretically mimic my senses through a virtual reality device, but I think we would still be different people.

I think the information pattern in our brains is the only thing unique about us. That includes sensory input, but also includes our memories and thought processes.
 
I think the information pattern in my brain is the only thing that could logically make me me. It can't be genetics; if I have a twin or clone myself, we're still different people. It can't be individual cells or molecules in our body; those are dying and being replaced all the time. And I don't even think it's our sensory perception, as you could theoretically mimic my senses through a virtual reality device, but I think we would still be different people.

I think the information pattern in our brains is the only thing unique about us. That includes sensory input, but also includes our memories and thought processes.

Your right but that is all built from senses and genetics.

The information pattern is assembled from those things.
 
Your right but that is all built from senses and genetics.

The information pattern is assembled from those things.

As well as experiences. Everything that you know and think make you who you are.

The best example of this, I think, is twins. People with as close to the same DNA as possible. They look, talk, and sound the same. But, they can have fundamentally different personalities.
 
Your life experiences, your responses to them, and especially your memories are a large part of who you are as a person. Meeting someone with advanced Alzheimers shows a house that is no longer occupied by the owner.
 
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