View Poll Results: Where does personal identity come from?

Voters
40. You may not vote on this poll
  • The cells in my body

    9 22.50%
  • The neurons in my brain

    13 32.50%
  • The molecules in my brain

    7 17.50%
  • The information pattern in my brain

    13 32.50%
  • My five basic senses

    9 22.50%
  • My soul, life force, or something else metaphysical

    18 45.00%
  • Other

    15 37.50%
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Thread: Where does personal identity come from?

  1. #31
    Goddess of Bacon

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    Re: Where does personal identity come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    conditioned choices, maybe. their behavior is instinctual.
    What choices do we make that aren't conditioned? We're conditioned from birth. Only we call it 'learning'. We also make choices based solely on instinct.

  2. #32
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    Re: Where does personal identity come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Well, it seems to have a sense of self. I don't know if it is self-awareness.
    Ok, Self-awareness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia tells me dogs are not self-aware.

  3. #33
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    Re: Where does personal identity come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    What choices do we make that aren't conditioned? We're conditioned from birth. Only we call it 'learning'. We also make choices based solely on instinct.
    a dog can't choose what to think, or when to think it.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  4. #34
    Goddess of Bacon

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    Re: Where does personal identity come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    a dog can't choose what to think, or when to think it.
    Just out of curiosity, You know this... how?

    I'm not saying they can or cannot. What I am saying that until I'm inside a dog's head, I'm really never gonna know. And I'm curious how others are able to make such statements without having been inside the brain of the animal of which they speak.

    And, you stated they cannot make choices, THAT is what I was disputing. They most certainly can, and do.

  5. #35
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    Re: Where does personal identity come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Just out of curiosity, You know this... how?

    I'm not saying they can or cannot. What I am saying that until I'm inside a dog's head, I'm really never gonna know. And I'm curious how others are able to make such statements without having been inside the brain of the animal of which they speak.

    And, you stated they cannot make choices, THAT is what I was disputing. They most certainly can, and do.
    true, i can't know for certain. but i don't think a dog, on its own, can choose when to have dinner, or choose when to go to bed. they are driven by instinct.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  6. #36
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    Re: Where does personal identity come from?

    Who we are is determined by the incredibly complex and diverse branching of decisions we've made (and have had made for us, which would include both genetics and environment) in the past. What we have decided to do in the past defines who we are and what we are likely to choose to do in the future.

  7. #37
    Goddess of Bacon

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    Re: Where does personal identity come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    true, i can't know for certain. but i don't think a dog, on its own, can choose when to have dinner, or choose when to go to bed. they are driven by instinct.
    They eat when they are hungry, much like we do. They sleep when they are tired, much like we do. My parents dog chooses, all by himself, when to go to bed. He trots off to his kennel whenever he's ready. There's food down all day long, they decide when they want to eat and they eat when they are hungry. These actions are no different than our own at the very basic level.

    Do they have the complex thinking that we do? No, I don't believe that dogs do. But I also do not believe them to be some mindless automatons. They make choices for themselves. Complex choices such as determining if the weather is too bad to actually make it up the hill? Doubtful. But choices nonetheless.

  8. #38
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    Re: Where does personal identity come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Ok, Self-awareness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia tells me dogs are not self-aware.
    Update. The previous link contains:
    Humans are not the only creatures who are self-aware. Thus far, there is evidence that bottlenose dolphins, some apes, and elephants have the capacity to be self-aware. Recent studies from the Goethe University Frankfurt show that magpies may also possess self-awareness. Common speculation suggests that some other animals are self-aware.

  9. #39
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    Re: Where does personal identity come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    They eat when they are hungry, much like we do. They sleep when they are tired, much like we do. My parents dog chooses, all by himself, when to go to bed. He trots off to his kennel whenever he's ready. There's food down all day long, they decide when they want to eat and they eat when they are hungry. These actions are no different than our own at the very basic level.

    Do they have the complex thinking that we do? No, I don't believe that dogs do. But I also do not believe them to be some mindless automatons. They make choices for themselves. Complex choices such as determining if the weather is too bad to actually make it up the hill? Doubtful. But choices nonetheless.
    not mindless, of course, but not self aware. dogs don't make judgements, nor do they reason, at least i don't think they do.


    people argue this both ways.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  10. #40
    Doesn't go below juicy
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    Re: Where does personal identity come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    And you think they are part of your identity? Can identity change?
    yes and yes

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