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Should all child molesters be castrated before leaving prison?

Good idea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 27 40.3%

  • No

    Votes: 40 59.7%
  • Total voters
    67
Camlon said:
Why don't you guys distingush between first time offenders and the ones who do it over and over again? There is no way I support castration for first timers, because I believe everyone should get a second chance. (and it may not even work) Of course they should end up in prison, but after their sentence they should be given another chance. People do stupid stuff once in a while.

You must remember that the pedophile may be innocent or he may be hiding his gay feeling. The monsters are the ones who do it again.
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first timers are usually just people who got caught for the first time.
 
misterman said:
Recidivism for some other crimes is very high too. Drugs, prostitution, burglary...

But thanks for bringing up a new point - the idea that we should, or legally can, imprison someone because they might commit a crime in the future.
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The difference is that child molestation is linked to what is (based upon our current knowledge) an uncurable mental illness. Child molesters do not stop with one victim. So, releasing them from prison almost guarantees that there will be future victims of this crime.

Furthermore, many child molesters were themselves molested. So, not only do they create future victims, but future predators.

To break the cycle, they should never be allowed to leave the prison setting.
 
misterman said:
But thanks for bringing up a new point - the idea that we should, or legally can, imprison someone because they might commit a crime in the future.
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The sentence always takes into consideration the seriousness of the crime. Short of a 1st degree homicide, I have a hard time thinking of a crime that is more serious than raping a small child. Just like people who commit homicide often get LWOP, so should child molesters.
 
B L Zeebub said:
Maybe we should lock convicted Pedo's up for life, put them in a secure cell with a big window over looking the playground of a junior school.
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I'd prefer for them to be in a cell with photos of their vicims on the walls.
 
samsmart said:
I know that this tends to happen in African and Middle Eastern areas. I once read a news article of an 80-year-old man who married a 12-year-old as his fourth wife.

But then again women don't have the same expectations as they do in the U.S. Here, they are expected to have job skills and a career of their own to pursue while their children are off at school. In those societies, women are expected to bear children for their husband and keep house. Parents also marry their girls off young because they don't want to bear the cost of feeding them any more.
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So, are you suggesting that this is way of life that we should imitate, and that it justifies a 70 year old man having sex with a 12 year old?

Just seeking clarification. Because that's what it sounds like.
 
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Dav said:
I don't see why anyone would vote "no". If you commit armed robery, you lose your right to use a gun. If you rape a child, you should lose your right to use a penis.
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Please feel free to provide evidence that cutting off a penis actually would stop child molestation.
 
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Dav said:
I don't see why anyone would vote "no". If you commit armed robery, you lose your right to use a gun. If you rape a child, you should lose your right to use a penis.
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Um, doesn't this mean all rapists should be castrated, not just child rapists?
 
American said:
Recidivism for child molesters is very high.
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Not really. 3.3% of child offenders do it again the next 3 years, and it's lower for first timers. [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_offender]Sex offender - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]


Catz Part Deux said:
because really, raping a child could happen to anyone...Perhaps he just fell into her.

:roll:
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No, :lol: Where did you get that idea from.


liblady said:
first timers are usually just people who got caught for the first time.
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How do you know? That may be an argument for better policing, but not for giving first time offenders another chance. Remember that rape is a serious offence, and if the child doesn't think it's normal, then she is probably going to tell.
 
Camlon said:
Not really. 3.3% of child offenders do it again the next 3 years, and it's lower for first timers. Sex offender - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



No, :lol: Where did you get that idea from.



How do you know? That may be an argument for better policing, but not for giving first time offenders another chance. Remember that rape is a serious offence, and if the child doesn't think it's normal, then she is probably going to tell.
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how do i know? because many, many times when someone is caught prior crimes surface. and the reason children don't tell is because they're the perfect victims, they are easily manipulated and scared.

btw, 3.3% are REARRESTED....that certainly doesn't mean they didn't reoffend. jeez.
 
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Camlon said:
Not really. 3.3% of child offenders do it again the next 3 years, and it's lower for first timers.
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3.3% are ARRESTED FOR IT. There's a difference.

Underestimating Recidivism
Reliance on measures of recidivism as reflected through official criminal justice system data obviously omit offenses that are not cleared through an arrest or those that are never reported to the police. This distinction is critical in the measurement of recidivism of sex offenders. For a variety of reasons, sexual assault is a vastly underreported crime. The National Crime Victimization Surveys (Bureau of Justice Statistics) conducted in 1994, 1995, and 1998 indicate that only 32 percent (one out of three) of sexual assaults against persons 12 or older are reported to law enforcement. A three-year longitudinal study (Kilpatrick, Edmunds, and Seymour, 1992) of 4,008 adult women found that 84 percent of respondents who identified themselves as rape victims did not report the crime to authorities. (No current studies indicate the rate of reporting for child sexual assault, although it is generally assumed that these assaults are equally underreported.) Many victims are afraid to report sexual assault to the police. They may fear that reporting will lead to the following:
1. further victimization by the offender;
2. other forms of retribution by the offender or by the offender's friends or family;
3. arrest, prosecution, and incarceration of an offender who may be a family member or friend and on whom the victim or others may depend;
4. others finding out about the sexual assault (including friends, family members, media, and the public);
5. not being believed; and
6. being traumatized by the criminal justice system response.

Several studies support the hypothesis that sexual offense recidivism rates are underreported. Marshall and Barbaree (1990) compared official records of a sample of sex offenders with "unofficial" sources of data. They found that the number of subsequent sex offenses revealed through unofficial sources was 2.4 times higher than the number that was recorded in official reports.

In addition, research using information generated through polygraph examinations on a sample of imprisoned sex offenders with fewer than two known victims (on average), found that these offenders actually had an average of 110 victims and 318 offenses (Ahlmeyer, Heil, McKee, and English, 2000). Another polygraph study found a sample of imprisoned sex offenders to have extensive criminal histories, committing sex crimes for an average of 16 years before being caught (Ahlmeyer, English, and Simons, 1999).

Application of Studies of General Criminal Recidivism

The identification of factors associated with criminal recidivism has been an area of significant research over the past 20 years. This work has fueled the development of countless policies and instruments to guide sentencing and release decisions throughout the criminal justice system. If one assumes that sex offenders are similar to other criminal offenders, then the preponderance of research should assist practitioners in identifying risk factors in this population as well. Gottfredson and Hirschi (1990) argued that there is little specialization among criminal offenders. In this view, robbers also commit burglary and those who commit assaults also may be drug offenders. The extensive research on recidivism among the general criminal population has identified a set of factors that are consistently associated with subsequent criminal behavior. These factors include being young, having an unstable employment history, abusing alcohol and drugs, holding pro-criminal attitudes, and associating with other criminals (Gendreau, Little, and Goggin, 1996).

However, there is some evidence that suggests that sexual offending may differ from other criminal behavior (Hanson and Bussiere, 1998). Although sex offenders may commit other types of offenses, other types of offenders rarely commit sex offenses (Bonta and Hanson, 1995; Hanson, Steffy, and Gauthier, 1995). If this is the case, then a different set of factors may be associated with the recidivism of sex offenders than for the general offender population. This statement is reinforced by the finding that many persistent sex offenders receive low risk scores on instruments designed to predict recidivism among the general offender population (Bonta and Hanson, 1995).

...Conversely, Prentky, Lee, Knight, and Cerce (1997) found that over a 25-year period, child molesters had higher rates of reoffense than rapists. In this study, recidivism was operationalized as a failure rate and calculated as the proportion of individuals who were rearrested using survival analysis (which takes into account the amount of time each offender has been at risk in the community). Results show that over longer periods of time, child molesters have a higher failure rate—thus, a higher rate of rearrest—than rapists (52 percent versus 39 percent over 25 years).
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CSOM Publications - Recidivism of Sex Offenders

No, :lol: Where did you get that idea from.
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You know, anyone could make a mistake and accidently find his penis in a 2 year old. Allowances should be granted for first time offenders.

/sarcasm

How do you know? That may be an argument for better policing, but not for giving first time offenders another chance. Remember that rape is a serious offence, and if the child doesn't think it's normal, then she is probably going to tell.
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See the above synthesis of research studies on the subject. Research on convicted child molesters indicates that the average offender has over 100 victims. You're right...rape is a serious offense, and most sex offenders have ways of terrorizing the victim to keep him/her from talking. Your post represents zero understanding of this subject.

In point of facts, 84% of the time, rape is NOT reported when it occurs, and the rates are higher for non-reporting of child rape. Victimization may not be discovered for years. That doesn't mean that serious harm wasn't done.
 
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liblady said:
how do i know? because many, many times when someone is caught prior crimes surface. and the reason children don't tell is because they're the perfect victims, they are easily manipulated and scared.
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Well, I meant how do we know that a person has done anything before?

I think a child could choose not to tell if it is more a minor offense, then they may not feel anything is wrong and just realize it later in life. I don't think that's possible with rape, because it hurts a lot, and it will devastate the child and as a parent you should notice it. The only way this could happen, must be if it is the parent who does it or if the kid has been groomed over a long time.
 
Camlon said:
Well, I meant how do we know that a person has done anything before?

I think a child could choose not to tell if it is more a minor offense, then they may not feel anything is wrong and just realize it later in life. I don't think that's possible with rape, because it hurts a lot, and it will devastate the child and as a parent you should notice it. The only way this could happen, must be if it is the parent who does it or if the kid has been groomed over a long time.
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The only way this could happen, must be if it is the parent who does it or if the kid has been groomed over a long time.
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which is exactly what happens in very many cases. most of the time, the offender knows their victim very well. there's too much evidence showing that child molestors don't just do it once.
 
Camlon said:
Well, I meant how do we know that a person has done anything before?
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See research above.

I think a child could choose not to tell if it is more a minor offense, then they may not feel anything is wrong and just realize it later in life. I don't think that's possible with rape, because it hurts a lot, and it will devastate the child and as a parent you should notice it.
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Child Molestation Research & Prevention Institute

Children seldom tell. Those millions of children are a secret. They are the secret in family after family after family. Even adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse seldom tell. What we do know from studies of adult men and women is that the number is at least three million. At least three million children are molested before they finish their 13th year. In 1998, there were 103,000 reported and confirmed cases of child molestation. For comparison, at the height of the polio epidemic that struck children in the 1950s, there were 21,000 cases reported in a year. For rubella, there were 57,000 cases reported. For child molestation, those numbers of reported and confirmed molestations are only the tip of the iceberg. For every case reported there are at least two and maybe three more cases that never get reported.

That's why we may never know the exact number of child victims. We do know that if we use the conservative estimate that two in every ten little girls and one in every ten little boys are victims (based on the population reported in the 1999 U.S. Census statistical abstract) well over three million children are victims.
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You need to do more research on this subject before posting. Here's a good place to start if you want to understand child sexual molestation & pedophilia.

http://www.childmolestationprevention.org/pdfs/study.pdf
 
Catz Part Deux said:
3.3% are ARRESTED FOR IT. There's a difference.

CSOM Publications - Recidivism of Sex Offenders

You know, anyone could make a mistake and accidently find his penis in a 2 year old. Allowances should be granted for first time offenders.

/sarcasm

See the above synthesis of research studies on the subject. Research on convicted child molesters indicates that the average offender has over 100 victims. You're right...rape is a serious offense, and most sex offenders have ways of terrorizing the victim to keep him/her from talking. Your post represents zero understanding of this subject.

In point of facts, 84% of the time, rape is NOT reported when it occurs, and the rates are higher for non-reporting of child rape. Victimization may not be discovered for years. That doesn't mean that serious harm wasn't done.
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If those numbers are correct, then there is seriously something wrong with policing. The average dude has 100 victims before getting caught. :doh Obviously the problem here isn't the punishments, but that no one get caught.

Allright, catch more pedophiles and I keep my point. In general first timers should get another chance.
 
liblady said:
how do i know? because many, many times when someone is caught prior crimes surface. and the reason children don't tell is because they're the perfect victims, they are easily manipulated and scared.

btw, 3.3% are REARRESTED....that certainly doesn't mean they didn't reoffend. jeez.
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So we should put some people in jail for crimes they might commit in the future that they won't even be arrested for?
 
Camlon said:
If those numbers are correct, then there is seriously something wrong with policing. The average dude has 100 victims before getting caught. :doh Obviously the problem here isn't the punishments, but that no one get caught.
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The reason that most child molestation isn't reported is because it isn't done by strangers. 68% of child molesters molest members of their own family (son/daughter--incest), step kids, nieces, nephews, etc. And when they molest them, the children hear messages that if they tell, they will get into trouble, or the person will go away, or the police will come and get the victim, or "mommy will be mad." Remember, this is abuse by a trusted family member or trusted family friend. The overwhelming majority of victims of child molestation KNOW THEIR PERPETRATOR. Child rape by strangers is likely to be reported, but child rape by family members or close friends is often never reported.

We know that these perpetrators have multiple victims because of studies of child molesters under polygraph (self-report data) and because of victim self-report studies. However, these crimes are ALMOST NEVER reported to the police (or only in a small percentage of the cases). If the crimes aren't reported, it's very difficult for police to take action, particularly when these crimes are occurring secretively, inside families.
 
misterman said:
So we should put some people in jail for crimes they might commit in the future that they won't even be arrested for?
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No. We should put them in jail permanently because the seriousness of the crime is such that it warrants it. This is true for several reasons. First, childhood molestation causes permanent, irreversible harm to the victims that is just as egregious as homicide.

Second, it is generally committed by adults in a position of trust...a trusted family member, a school teacher, a boy scout leader. Not only have these individuals abused a child, but they have violated that position of trust.

Thirdly, and probably most importantly, childhood molestation CREATES NEW PERPETRATORS. 47% of child molesters were themselves molested. And, if this molestation occurred with frequency, their number of victims triples. 82% of the child molesters who were themselves molested repeatedly in childhood can be accurately classified as pedophiles, and pedophiles commit 88% of molestation.

Source: http://www.childmolestationprevention.org/pdfs/study.pdf
 
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Catz Part Deux said:
The difference is that child molestation is linked to what is (based upon our current knowledge) an uncurable mental illness. Child molesters do not stop with one victim. So, releasing them from prison almost guarantees that there will be future victims of this crime.
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As I already pointed out, a singular offense is not proof of pedophilia:
Child molestation is a crime involving a range of indecent or sexual activities between an adult and a child, usually under the age of 14. In psychiatric terms, these acts are sometimes known as pedophilia. It is important, however, to keep in mind that child molestation and child Sexual Abuse refer to specific, legally defined actions. They do not necessarily imply that the perpetrator bears a particular psychological makeup or motive. For example, not all incidents of child molestation are perpetrated by pedophiles; sometimes the perpetrator has other motives for his or her actions and does not manifest an ongoing patternof sexual attraction to children. Thus, not all child molestation is perpetrated by pedophiles, and not all pedophiles actually commit child molestation.
Child Molestation legal definition of Child Molestation. Child Molestation synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

Catz Part Deux said:
See the above synthesis of research studies on the subject. Research on convicted child molesters indicates that the average offender has over 100 victims.
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Catz Part Deux said:
The reason that most child molestation isn't reported is because it isn't done by strangers. 68% of child molesters molest members of their own family (son/daughter--incest), step kids, nieces, nephews, etc.
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Hmm, how can this be, the two studies do not match.
 
roderic said:
As I already pointed out, a singular offense is not proof of pedophilia:
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However, it is proof of being a child molester, which is sufficient for me.

Hmm, how can this be, the two studies do not match.
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They don't necessarily not-match, because the 68% and the 40% overlap. Some molest both family members and the children of friends/children they work with. And, it's possible to have multiple victims. Beyond that, the pedophiles that participated in the polygraph test may have had more victims, on average, because they were already incarcerated for child molestation.

You'd have to examine the survey methodologies. That's why I provided links, because I know how thoughtfully and thoroughly you like to research your ideological positions. :)
 
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Catz Part Deux said:
However, it is proof of being a child molester, which is sufficient for me.
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In legal terms, yes, but it is not proof of "an uncurable mental illness", as the text I provided shows.

You'd have to examine the survey methodologies. That's why I provided links, because I know how thoughtfully and thoroughly you like to research your ideological positions. :)
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:confused: I noted the claims are contradictory, nothing more...

At closer inspection, it turns out that the "over 100 victims" does not refer to "convicted child molesters", as you falsely claimed, but "[SIZE=+0]imprisoned sex offenders".[/SIZE]
Perhaps your "ideological position" lead you to misread and misrepresent this?
 
roderic said:
In legal terms, yes, but it is not proof of "an uncurable mental illness", as the text I provided shows.
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It is proof that they molest children. And, taht crime is serious enough to warrant a life sentence, in my book.

At closer inspection, it turns out that the "over 100 victims" does not refer to "convicted child molesters", as you falsely claimed, but "[SIZE=+0]imprisoned sex offenders".[/SIZE]
Perhaps your "ideological position" lead you to misread and misrepresent this?
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My bad. Apparently, it lumps together all sorts of sex offenders, not just child molesters. However, one of the studies I linked showed that they average sex offender had many victims.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
It is proof that they molest children. And, taht crime is serious enough to warrant a life sentence, in my book.
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All it proves it that they are guilty of the charges they are convicted for, perhaps your "ideology" is clouding your judgment?
In my opinion this needs different consideration than a proven repeat offender or a pedo who is a repeat offender by definition.

My bad. Apparently, it lumps together all sorts of sex offenders, not just child molesters. However, one of the studies I linked showed that they average sex offender had many victims.
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Yes, the one in question does so, as I have just pointed out. :lol:
 
roderic said:
All it proves it that they are guilty of the charges they are convicted for, perhaps your "ideology" is clouding your judgment?
In my opinion this needs different consideration than a proven repeat offender or a pedo who is a repeat offender by definition.
:
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They are guilty of child molestation. Hence, they're a child molester, and I believe the sentence for that crime should be life without the possibility of parole. Prisons aren't for therapy. They are for removing predators from society. Once an individual has demonstrated he is a predator of that particular sort, he should be culled from the herd forever.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
They are guilty of child molestation. Hence, they're a child molester, and I believe the sentence for that crime should be life without the possibility of parole. Prisons aren't for therapy. They are for removing predators from society. Once an individual has demonstrated he is a predator of that particular sort, he should be culled from the herd forever.
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Show me somewhere in the law that says the purpose of incarceration is to remove people from society so they can't commit more crimes. If that were true, all sentences would be life sentences.
 
I do not think pedophiles should be castrated. They should all be executed. The only exception should be some cases of statutory rape. For instance a 18year old having sex eith a 16 year old. I think that there should be an age window. Say 16 to 20, as long as both consent and are within that window then no crime was commited.
 
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