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Thread: Should all child molesters be castrated before leaving prison?

  1. #271
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    Re: Should all child molesters be castrated before leaving prison?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted." - 8th amendment.

    You've highlighted some of the dangers of pure democracy. If the majority of the people want cruel or unusual punishment, they can't have it. It's expressly forbidden.
    Except the words "cruel and unusual" are purely subjective. Just because you think something is "cruel and unusual" does not make it so. In order to determine whether or not something is "cruel and unusual" we must subjectively interpret it. One logical way of doing this is asking whether or not the majority of people would be willing to undergo such a punishment in lieu of an accepted method of punishment; if they are, then we can reasonably infer that said alternative is not "cruel and unusual".

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    Re: Should all child molesters be castrated before leaving prison?

    No, that's in fact not how it's interpreted. The criminal doesn't get to choose punishment, that's handed down by the courts. The courts are restricted in what they can hand down as punishment by the Constitution. Just because you keep saying it's not cruel or unusual doesn't make it so. We don't use these forms of punishment, so implementation of them can most certainly be argued to be in the very least unusual. Maiming people can most certainly be argued to be cruel.
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    Re: Should all child molesters be castrated before leaving prison?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No, that's in fact not how it's interpreted.
    The terms "cruel and unusual" are subjective. Do you agree or disagree?

    The criminal doesn't get to choose punishment, that's handed down by the courts.
    I never said the criminal gets to choose their punishment. Under my system, child molesters would be given a mandatory minimum sentence; at the expiration of their sentence they would be given a choice between remaining in prison for life or being released and chemically castrated and implanted with a tracking device; the more serious offenders (child rapists) would have a cyanide capsule in their tracking device in case they tried to escape.

    The courts are restricted in what they can hand down as punishment by the Constitution.
    Yes, I know. The only problem with that is that the terms "cruel and unusual" do not have an objective meaning, which means a measure of subjective interpretation is required.

    Just because you keep saying it's not cruel or unusual doesn't make it so.
    Again, this is not my argument, indeed, the only one who is making such an argument is you.

    We don't use these forms of punishment, so implementation of them can most certainly be argued to be in the very least unusual.
    Ah, so any new form of punishment is immediately disqualified because it is unusual?

    Maiming people can most certainly be argued to be cruel.
    It could be argued, but that doesn't necessarily make it so. I don't think there is anything cruel about giving a child molester a choice between life in prison and chemical castration. No one is forcing them to do anything, except make a choice.

  4. #274
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    Re: Should all child molesters be castrated before leaving prison?

    Thing is (and this argument has been used before on this thread), castration would not stop child molesters from molesting children.

    Or rapists from raping.

    It's a mind issue, not a genitalia issue.

    Plus, not all child molesters/rapists are male.

    And you overlook the possibility that they are innocent of the charge.

    If you were falsely accused and convicted of child molestation (it happens), and upon being jailed you were castrated or killed (depending on who suggested what), would you be singing the same tune?

    No.

    I say just throw em all in a jail together.

    Permanently (well, barring new evidence proving their innocence).
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    Re: Should all child molesters be castrated before leaving prison?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Thing is (and this argument has been used before on this thread), castration would not stop child molesters from molesting children.

    Or rapists from raping.

    It's a mind issue, not a genitalia issue.
    Of course it's not 100% effective but that's not a good argument against it.

    Furthermore, a male's sex drive is determined in large part by their testosterone levels. Suggesting that chemical castration will have no effect on their sex drive is a little silly.

    Plus, not all child molesters/rapists are male.

    And you overlook the possibility that they are innocent of the charge.

    If you were falsely accused and convicted of child molestation (it happens), and upon being jailed you were castrated or killed (depending on who suggested what), would you be singing the same tune?

    No.

    I say just throw em all in a jail together.

    Permanently (well, barring new evidence proving their innocence).
    The vast majority of them are male. Exceptions to the rule need not muddy the waters, nor should the prospect of innocent people being falsely punished, since that is inherent to a human justice system.

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    Re: Should all child molesters be castrated before leaving prison?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Of course it's not 100% effective but that's not a good argument against it.
    Why not?

    If a child molester is released after being castrated, and molests again, I wouldn't like it!

    Thus my suggestion of life in prison, without any possibility of parole.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Furthermore, a male's sex drive is determined in large part by their testosterone levels. Suggesting that chemical castration will have no effect on their sex drive is a little silly.
    Of course it will have SOME effect, in most cases.

    But not all.

    And sex is not always the primary motivator in such things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    The vast majority of them are male. Exceptions to the rule need not muddy the waters, nor should the prospect of innocent people being falsely punished, since that is inherent to a human justice system.
    Actually, innocent people being punished unjustly are the example that puts the lie to the human attempts at a "justice" system.

    Sure, it may work for most cases, and actually improve overall conditions.

    But it still is nowhere near perfect, and it makes mistakes, some of which are not corrected.

    I like to think that it, while not perfect, is constantly being improved towards perfection.
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    Re: Should all child molesters be castrated before leaving prison?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Why not?

    If a child molester is released after being castrated, and molests again, I wouldn't like it!

    Thus my suggestion of life in prison, without any possibility of parole.
    I see your point. I guess my argument is if we're going to release them then we ought to decrease the likelihood of them hurting children.

    Of course it will have SOME effect, in most cases.

    But not all.

    And sex is not always the primary motivator in such things.
    Agreed. Like I said, if we're going to release them we ought to do our best to protect society.

    Actually, innocent people being punished unjustly are the example that puts the lie to the human attempts at a "justice" system.

    Sure, it may work for most cases, and actually improve overall conditions.

    But it still is nowhere near perfect, and it makes mistakes, some of which are not corrected.
    This is inherent to any human system.

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    Re: Should all child molesters be castrated before leaving prison?

    Put jaywalkers in prison for life! That will keep them from jaywalking again.

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    Re: Should all child molesters be castrated before leaving prison?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Put jaywalkers in prison for life! That will keep them from jaywalking again.
    Jaywalking =|= child molestation.

    At least, not in my book.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: Should all child molesters be castrated before leaving prison?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Put jaywalkers in prison for life! That will keep them from jaywalking again.
    You're not even trying to be reasonable anymore. Come back when you've returned to your old self, MM.

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