View Poll Results: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

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  • Yes, entirely.

    7 10.29%
  • Yes, partially

    19 27.94%
  • No, partially

    10 14.71%
  • No, entirely

    29 42.65%
  • Other.

    3 4.41%
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Thread: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

  1. #81
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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Teachers, generally, get paid well.
    Average teacher salaries are in the $30,000 to $40,000 range in the US.


    Substitute teachers here are payed $75 a day.

    This what you think is well paid for one of the most important jobs for the future success of our country.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    That's the result of having our public schools paid for by our Property Taxes. Property value > Property Taxes > School funding > type of classes > type of students > type of worker > type of income > property value, and repeat.

    SES is a major factor in determining all of this. It determines the health of the student (as in health insurance), the home atmosphere, type of parents, it's neighborhood, it's school, etc etc. It is most definitely a cycle.

    Public schools will not level off as long as property taxes is what pays for our public schools.
    All true. I would hope that in a place like California, where tax receipts are remitted to the state and then redistributed, that the leveling I'm talking about would be more prevalent. But perhaps not.
    Can you talk more about the method you are referring to? Describe it.
    Sure. I'm talking about when the teachers in particular subject and grade levels meet together to coordinate their curricula together so that they are determining TOGETHER what will be taught and how. They create these frameworks themselves and stick to them for a year, then reevaluate. This way, teachers are invested in what they're doing more than when the curriculum is handed to them, but they aren't each completely independent, reporting only to a department chair or principal.

    This way, all the teachers can learn from the expertise of each other. They create a situation where students talk to each other about what they are learning, across classes, improving the school as a culture of learning. Sometimes teachers even collaborate across subjects, so student learn different aspects of the same topic in social studies and English, for example.

    The key is collaboration between respected professionals rather than the imposition of a curriculum from an outside source.

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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Average teacher salaries are in the $30,000 to $40,000 range in the US.
    Public school teachers continue to be paid less than any other profession for which a college degree is a minimum qualification. And their pay in relation to national per capita GNP is quite low compared to other countries (while they actually work more hours per year than in any other nation).

    It's pretty reasonable that someone from Georgia would believe that teachers are well-paid. Here's a list of states in order of "comfort index" for teachers. This index is a comparison between cost of living and average teacher salary. Georgia ranks third:

    1. Illinois
    2. Delaware
    3. Georgia
    4. Michigan
    5. Pennsylvania
    6. Ohio
    7. Texas
    8. Indiana
    9. Tennessee
    10. Minnesota
    11. Arkansas
    12. Colorado
    13. Alabama
    14. Oregon
    15. Kentucky
    16. Missouri
    17. Nebraska
    18. Oklahoma
    19. Mississippi
    20. Louisiana
    21. Kansas
    22. Connecticut
    23. North Carolina
    24. South Carolina
    25. Virginia
    26. Florida
    27. Wyoming
    28. Wisconsin
    29. New Mexico
    30. Alaska
    31. Iowa
    32. Washington
    33. Idaho
    34. Massachusetts
    35. Arizona
    36. New Jersey
    37. Maryland
    38. New York
    39. Utah
    40. West Virginia
    41. South Dakota
    42. Rhode Island
    43. North Dakota
    44. California
    45. Nevada
    46. Montana
    47. Maine
    48. New Hampshire
    49. Vermont
    50. Hawaii

  4. #84
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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    That's a perfect example of the lowered priority for education in this country that has allowed us to slip behind other countries.

    Thanks!
    Fact of the matter is, not everyone can be a hedge fund manager.

    Practically anyone can teach a kid how to read, and most parents do a better job that most schools. Both my kids were reading before they went to kindergarten.

    Practially anyone can teach a child arithmatic, and parents that make the effort do a vastly better job than a goonionized teacher.

    I'll trust my ability to teach my kids the truth about the Constitution and American history over any just about any mass-produced employee in the Propaganda Factories. After all, I won't lie to my child.

  5. #85
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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Fact of the matter is, not everyone can be a hedge fund manager.

    Practically anyone can teach a kid how to read, and most parents do a better job that most schools. Both my kids were reading before they went to kindergarten.

    Practially anyone can teach a child arithmatic, and parents that make the effort do a vastly better job than a goonionized teacher.

    I'll trust my ability to teach my kids the truth about the Constitution and American history over any just about any mass-produced employee in the Propaganda Factories. After all, I won't lie to my child.
    true, just crooks.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  6. #86
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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    I'm all for unions, when the following conditions are met:

    1) The employer owns the job, hence gets to decide who works where, and who gets fired. Non-performing workers, including incompetent teachers, can be fired at any time. The city of New York has hundreds of teachers paid full salary while basically in "detention", because they're not allowed to teach students.
    Agreed
    2) Employers can permanently replace people who are supposed to be working but are out on the sidewalk marching in circles carrying signs.
    Disagree
    3) Criminal charges are filed and prosecuted for every act of violence any union member engages in.
    Already are if its Criminal
    4) Union elections are by sealed secret ballot only.
    Agreed
    5) Workers at a company have the freedom to not be in the union.
    Fine but they get reduced pay and benefits and no representation then or else I will disagree
    6) Union dues are collected for political purposes are subject to refund to the union member when the union endorses and finances political candidates the union member opposes. Union members should receive a quarterly statement specifying exactly where their dues money goes, so the political activities can be seen.
    Agreed to a point but then dues will go up
    Then I'll support unions.
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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Average teacher salaries are in the $30,000 to $40,000 range in the US.


    Substitute teachers here are payed $75 a day.

    This what you think is well paid for one of the most important jobs for the future success of our country.

    $47,602 average pay. each state is a bit different though..

    Teacher Salaries by State | Employment Spot

  8. #88
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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Fact of the matter is, not everyone can be a hedge fund manager.

    Practically anyone can teach a kid how to read, and most parents do a better job that most schools. Both my kids were reading before they went to kindergarten.

    Practially anyone can teach a child arithmatic, and parents that make the effort do a vastly better job than a goonionized teacher.

    I'll trust my ability to teach my kids the truth about the Constitution and American history over any just about any mass-produced employee in the Propaganda Factories. After all, I won't lie to my child.
    No you will just give them your version of reality and priorities that you have expressed here!

    Be afraid kids, be very afraid!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #89
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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Yup, in California, the average teacher makes nearly $60k, thanks to their absurd union. And no, they don't deserve it.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    [quote=pugetsoundwa;1058532991]Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar
    I'm all for unions, when the following conditions are met:

    2) Employers can permanently replace people who are supposed to be working but are out on the sidewalk marching in circles carrying signs.
    Quote Originally Posted by pugetsoundwa View Post
    Disagree
    Employers hire employees to WORK, not play on the sidewalk. If an employee does not wish to do the work, as is his freedom to choose to do, then the employer should have the freedom to allow the former employee to spend all the time he wants playing on the sidewalk. Since the employer will have to hire someone else who does want to work, there's no reason the man playing on the sidewalk should expect to have a job to do when he gets tired of playing.

    After all, it's the employer's job, not the employee's.

    3) Criminal charges are filed and prosecuted for every act of violence any union member engages in.

    Quote Originally Posted by pugetsoundwa View Post
    Already are if its Criminal
    How many goonioneers were arrested and prosecuted for assualting citizens speaking out at last summer's anti-Messiah Care meetings with their Congressthings?

    5) Workers at a company have the freedom to not be in the union.
    Quote Originally Posted by pugetsoundwa View Post
    Fine but they get reduced pay and benefits and no representation then or else I will disagree
    You are aware that it's not your money, but the money the employer chooses to pay, right? Who are you to dictate what others choose to pay for services performed, and what others choose to accept for performing those services?

    6) Union dues are collected for political purposes are subject to refund to the union member when the union endorses and finances political candidates the union member opposes. Union members should receive a quarterly statement specifying exactly where their dues money goes, so the political activities can be seen.
    Quote Originally Posted by pugetsoundwa View Post
    Agreed to a point but then dues will go up
    Dues will go up if goonion members aren't charged for goonion political activities they disagree with?

    This some kind of Magical Mystical Messiah Mathematics, like the kind that claims the government can pick up thirty million uninsured people and not spend more money?

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