As I said, that could be factored into the algorithm so that it wouldn't affect the results. If Mr. Smith has the remedial class where kids learned 0.8 years of material this year (compared to 0.5 years of material last year), and Ms. Jones has the advanced class where kids learned 1.2 years of material this year (compared to 1.5 years of material last year), then Mr. Smith is the more effective of the two at teaching his students.Originally Posted by Lightdemon
If the teachers have comparable students (e.g. students selected from the same ability/demographic/previous education pool), then on average they should have the same proportion of slackers and overachievers. If the student populations are similar in every other way, why would the students in one class be more motivated to study at night, do their homework, and pay attention in class than students in the other class? Again, the only variable is the teacher.Originally Posted by Lightdemon
It is an excellent foundation for supporting the merit pay system if you apply statistical analysis, which is very easy to do with the information technology that already exists.Originally Posted by Lightdemon
I disagree that critical thinking is not measurable on multiple choice tests. The GMAT and LSAT both measure it. But even if you include a writing section, that would be well worth the cost to measure these sort of things. I'd much rather spend the money knowing which teachers are ineffective (and can therefore be terminated) than on the ineffective teacher's salary.Originally Posted by Lightdemon
Why every quarter? Once a year should be plenty.Originally Posted by Lightdemon
Are you coming to bed?
I can't. This is important.
Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD
There are too many things going on for you to isolate teachers as THE variable. There are MANY variables and it does not effect all students, it affects different groups of students. The mere fact that your foundation is just a mere correlation, all the confounding variables destroys your entire premise.
You missed my point. Please refer to my earlier example in this thread where I talk about about my colleague who was waging a war with the administration. The administration can give a teacher 6 periods of hell, make every class horrible, all it takes is 5 or more problem students. These problem students can drive the entire class down in terms of performance, structure, and discipline. This is a tactic that the administration use to "discipline" teachers who do not cooperate and who are untouchable because of the union. Under the merit pay system, the teacher would suffer a dip in their salary because s/he was standing up to the administration (who was then implementing NCLB). Many teachers who opposed NCLB would have been silenced or driven out of their careers under the merit pay system. How well would that have turned out?As I said, that could be factored into the algorithm so that it wouldn't affect the results. If Mr. Smith has the remedial class where kids learned 0.8 years of material this year (compared to 0.5 years of material last year), and Ms. Jones has the advanced class where kids learned 1.2 years of material this year (compared to 1.5 years of material last year), then Mr. Smith is the more effective of the two at teaching his students.
I guess we'll just disagree here.I disagree that critical thinking is not measurable on multiple choice tests. The GMAT and LSAT both measure it.
Lots of confounding variables in a school year. Class make-up changes, you get new students, you lose a few students, some classes you only take 1 semester. How will I know whether or not I should make adjustments? How will I know that my students will be tested on the material that I teach them? I only get one chance to prove myself every year? If I get bad luck one year and get crappy classes, I'll have to wait 1 whole year to fix it?Why every quarter? Once a year should be plenty.
If not every quarter, at least once a semester like final exams.
The union can't use regular dues to block a proposition, or for any other campaign sort of purpose. They collect a separate, voluntary fee for that purpose. Members are encouraged to pay into that fund, but not required to do so in order to remain a member. When there is pending legislation that might affect schools, the union asks for money to lobby and campaign. Most members donate voluntarily.
Most of the stuff being used to lambaste unions is plucked out of thin air, made up of whole cloth, and then passed on as fact. What happened to the post above saying that teachers were being paid to do nothing since they can't be fired? I never did see any back up to that one. Maybe I missed it.
Can't we just turn Congress off and then turn it back on again?
In 2005, the California Teacher's Association raised the rates of all members by $180, specifically to build a $54 million dollar war chest to fight against Schwarzenegger's proposed educational cuts. The teachers had absolutely no say whatsoever in either the increase, nor in what it was used for. In fact, many teachers spoke out to the media against both the increase and it's usage.
Ah, I see my thread is progressing nicely. *Smiles fondly*
After reading all the interesting posts, it would seem that:
- Teacher Unions (And indeed, all Unions) are in general, neither good nor bad, but somewhere in the middle. Some are worse than others, some are better. Quality seems, to some extent, to vary by state, or even county/parish/whatever.
- By no means are teacher unions (or teachers) the only issue with the currently declining (I think) quality of public education.
Other factors would seem to include:
- Family environment, as in: Parental involvement, quality of home environment, quality of neighborhood environment, etc.
- Individual student motivation level, as in: Anti or neutral-education peer/parental pressure, lack on interest, etc.
- School environment, as in: Other students, quality of education materials, quality of education environment, etc.
- Curriculum limitations/restrictions, as in: Curriculum standards too stringent, overly restricting teaching style rules, etc.
- Individual student intelligence.
- Any changes proposed will have a negative effect on someone.
- In too many cases (as in, any), education quality is not the priority.
- Property taxes should be eliminated as a means of funding public schools.
Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller