View Poll Results: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

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  • Yes, entirely.

    7 10.29%
  • Yes, partially

    19 27.94%
  • No, partially

    10 14.71%
  • No, entirely

    29 42.65%
  • Other.

    3 4.41%
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Thread: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

  1. #191
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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Average grades would be measured relative to other teachers (on scale) within the respective school, not within the district or the state. That way you would eliminate the disparity between demographics and localities. Eliminating students from the data set who fall X amount of standard deviations outside the average would provide a more accurate picture of the teacher's competence relative to the rest of the school.

    I'd give you a mathematical example of what I was talking about but it would take me forever to explain...
    student's grades does not reflect a teacher's effectiveness in pedagogy. There are brilliant teachers at inner city schools, but it wont be reflected in the students grades. Similarly, there are students who are brilliant and will get top grades even if their teacher is incompetent.

    You're still operating under the assumption that student output is a direct correlation to the teacher's output. This is the main flaw in merit pay. The confounding variables are not just mathematical obstacles. It's a flaw in theory.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

  2. #192
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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Considering the fact that many of them don't work a full year and don't produce anything, that's pretty damn good and more than I make.

    Sub's are a joke job, $75 is to much in my opinion.
    Thank you for explaining where you are coming from.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #193
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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Thank you for explaining where you are coming from.
    Well, I just have to tell it how I see it.

    There are some damn fine teachers but all that is for not, if the students, parents et all don't give a crap.

    You can't erect schools and expect everyone to magically want to be educated.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  4. #194
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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Considering the fact that many of them don't work a full year and don't produce anything, that's pretty damn good and more than I make.

    Sub's are a joke job, $75 is to much in my opinion.
    Except we don't get paid to bring our work back home. I have to work off the clock to create lesson plans, grade papers, call parents, etc. I work off the clock on average of 2-3 hours a day depending on how much homework I give out, and whether or not there was a test this week. Do I get paid overtime? No. Do I get any compensation for it? No.

    And if I had a choice, I rather work during the summer. I have to save up enough money throughout the year so I can break even in those horrible 3 months of no income.

    It is NOT "pretty damn good."
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

  5. #195
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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    Except we don't get paid to bring our work back home. I have to work off the clock to create lesson plans, grade papers, call parents, etc. I work off the clock on average of 2-3 hours a day depending on how much homework I give out, and whether or not there was a test this week. Do I get paid overtime? No. Do I get any compensation for it? No.

    And if I had a choice, I rather work during the summer. I have to save up enough money throughout the year so I can break even in those horrible 3 months of no income.

    It is NOT "pretty damn good."
    Everyone has to do that though, it's not limited to just teachers.

    I work a ton of overtime just to make 25k a year, and I'm usually out of my house doing something for work 12 hours a day but I'm only getting paid for 10 of it.

    Plus if they pay is so ****ty, why do you guys become teachers in the first place?
    It's not like it's a secret of what the job pays.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  6. #196
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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    All of those goals basically boil down to "Give schools more money."
    It sounds to me like your interest is a selfish one that does not place a priority on education and the benefits that provides to the future of our country.

    But, you could prove me wrong by explaining how you would address each of these Virginia Education Assoc. goals without funding,


    Virginia Preschool Initiative?

    Comprehensive School Reform??

    Enhanced Career and Technical Education (Fine Arts - STEM)?

    Increased teacher participation in instructional decisions?

    Dropout prevention?

    Class size reduction?



    A professional organization is one thing. Strong-arming public officials (and by extension, strong-arming the voters) into policies that reward their members at the expense of the public is a different matter entirely.
    That is entirely your perception, and not one based on reality.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  7. #197
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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Everyone has to do that though, it's not limited to just teachers.

    I work a ton of overtime just to make 25k a year, and I'm usually out of my house doing something for work 12 hours a day but I'm only getting paid for 10 of it.

    Plus if they pay is so ****ty, why do you guys become teachers in the first place?
    It's not like it's a secret of what the job pays.
    I'm not in it for the money, but to deny that teachers get paid like crap is ridiculous. For all the schooling and training that one goes through to become a teacher, a 30-40k salary is insulting.

    I do it because I like my community. I teach where I live, and I want to give back to my community.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

  8. #198
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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    student's grades does not reflect a teacher's effectiveness in pedagogy. There are brilliant teachers at inner city schools, but it wont be reflected in the students grades. Similarly, there are students who are brilliant and will get top grades even if their teacher is incompetent.

    You're still operating under the assumption that student output is a direct correlation to the teacher's output. This is the main flaw in merit pay. The confounding variables are not just mathematical obstacles. It's a flaw in theory.
    You misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not sure I could explain it to you unless you were somewhat comfortable with statistical analysis.

  9. #199
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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    I'm not in it for the money, but to deny that teachers get paid like crap is ridiculous. For all the schooling and training that one goes through to become a teacher, a 30-40k salary is insulting.
    But lots of people go through similar types of training and earn similar types of salaries.
    It's not limited to teachers and however noble ones intentions are, that is what the job pays.

    When you accept the job offer, you accept the pay.
    There should be no crying after the fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    I do it because I like my community. I teach where I live, and I want to give back to my community.
    That's noble of you but in the end you wouldn't do it, if it didn't pay enough.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  10. #200
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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    You misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not sure I could explain it to you unless you were somewhat comfortable with statistical analysis.
    I think I'll manage. I did my fair share of statistical analysis when I did my BA in psychology.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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