View Poll Results: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

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  • Yes, entirely.

    7 10.29%
  • Yes, partially

    19 27.94%
  • No, partially

    10 14.71%
  • No, entirely

    29 42.65%
  • Other.

    3 4.41%
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Thread: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

  1. #121
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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Fact, it teaching wasn't such an easy profession, there wouldn't be so many, let's face it, less than average intelligent people becoming teachers. The students studying "education" as Syracuse University uniformly found third grade science difficult. They were cute, not bright.
    The teachers that teach there, for the most part, are great. Professional and very well educated.

    The issue lies with student motivation and lack of parental involvement.

    Have you researched this issue or is this just a knee jerk reaction?

    Regarding quality of teachers:

    Prospective teachers who took state teacher licensing exams from 2002 to 2005 scored higher on SATs in high school and earned higher grades in college than their counterparts who took the exams in the mid-1990s, the report said.

    The average SAT verbal scores of prospective teachers passing the Praxis tests to teach English, science, social studies, math and art from 2002 to 2005 were higher than those of prospective teachers in the mid-1990s — and were also higher than the average SAT scores for all college graduates, the report said.

    The percentage of candidates reporting a 3.5 GPA or higher rose from 27% to 40%


    Teacher qualifications improve in the past decade - USATODAY.com

    The college grades of prospective teachers has also improved. About 40 percent of the prospective teachers taking the licensing tests from 2002 to 2005 had a grade point average of 3.5 or higher on the traditional 4-point scale during college, up from 26 percent in the 1990s, the report said.

    “By this measure, we are witnessing a dramatic improvement in the quality of the teacher pool,” the report said.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/12/ed...on&oref=slogin

    3.5 or higher?

    •Federal Title II reporting rules, which in 1998 required states and teachers' colleges to report Praxis pass rates.

    • No Child Left Behind, which in 2002 forced states to expand teacher licensing testing, just as they were setting higher standards, such as minimum GPA requirements, for teacher education candidates.


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  2. #122
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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Calculus...oh....you mean that high school course I taught myself one summer. That's not a very high standard. In my high school, only one math teach had a masters in math. The rest didn't get that far.

    Frankly, a teacher doesn't need an advanced degree to teach the basics, especially not in something as straightforward as math.
    I'm not sure you're qualified to decide what a math teacher needs to know. Those standards are set by states and usually conform to the guidelines set by professional groups--like the National Council for the Teaching of Mathematics. Again, math teachers' training STARTS with calculus, it doesn't end there.

    And you're dodging my primary point, which is that you claim you could do this job easily, yet you've never had to teach something to a large group of someone else's children. Until you've done that, you really speak from ignorance, no matter how self-assured you may sound while doing it.
    Fact, it teaching wasn't such an easy profession, there wouldn't be so many, let's face it, less than average intelligent people becoming teachers. The students studying "education" as Syracuse University uniformly found third grade science difficult. They were cute, not bright.
    Poor arguments, when challenged, usually devolve to insults. And so here we are.
    Of course I can expect publicly financed schools to teach the truth about history.

    Is there something wrong with expecting schools to teach facts, not fantasy?
    I guess you'll have to be more specific. Actual historians often disagree about history, so it's quite likely you've just chosen the version you like and decided it is so. Glad Howard Zinn is dead are we?
    Last edited by Rassales; 02-03-10 at 07:43 PM.

  3. #123
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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by pugetsoundwa View Post
    Unions are what made America strong, its odd but not surprising that Repubs hate them although we all benefit from having had them in the fabric of America...Buy Union...Look for the Union Label...
    Yea, unions make America strong by artificially driving up the cost of doing business by demanding higher than market wages.

    I mean, look how well unionization worked for Detroit!

  4. #124
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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    The right to strike is pretty central to labor law. Without it, employees have pretty much no leverage over their employers. The conditions of workers before the right to strike was established were pretty bad. Do you really want to go back to those days?
    No one is stopping them from going on strike. Problem is, you have no right to keep your job if you're not working. Rights go both ways.

  5. #125
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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by MyOwnDrum View Post
    I personally don't have a problem with teacher salaries. They are well educated....
    That's debatable.

  6. #126
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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    What a great historical chronology Zinn provided in, "A People's History of the United States". His works are such a great resource to us.

    Rest in peace, Mr. Zinn!
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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    That's debatable.
    You do have a point there. I'm appalled to hear some of the poor grammar that comes out of the mouths of some teachers. Not only that, but some uncouth behaviour to go with it.

  8. #128
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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    No one is stopping them from going on strike. Problem is, you have no right to keep your job if you're not working. Rights go both ways.
    One fact that doesn't get mentioned in discussions like this is that the custom of continuing contract (the poor substitute for "tenure" that school teachers get) is actually part of their compensation. Without it they would have to be paid more. Job actions like strikes only happen under very specific circumstances, like when a contract runs out and another hasn't been negotiated. The difference, really, is that teacher bargain collectively rather than individually. It's much more disruptive to have to replace an entire staff than an individual--that gives those individuals power when they bargain collectively. You're saying they should not be able to make this choice?

  9. #129
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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    One fact that doesn't get mentioned in discussions like this is that the custom of continuing contract (the poor substitute for "tenure" that school teachers get) is actually part of their compensation. Without it they would have to be paid more. Job actions like strikes only happen under very specific circumstances, like when a contract runs out and another hasn't been negotiated. The difference, really, is that teacher bargain collectively rather than individually. It's much more disruptive to have to replace an entire staff than an individual--that gives those individuals power when they bargain collectively. You're saying they should not be able to make this choice?
    I'm saying the Wagner Act is a violation of freedom of association and private property rights.

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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by MyOwnDrum View Post
    You do have a point there. I'm appalled to hear some of the poor grammar that comes out of the mouths of some teachers. Not only that, but some uncouth behaviour to go with it.
    One of the highest paid teachers at my old high-school was a driver's ed teacher. The man was a complete fool.

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