View Poll Results: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

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  • Yes, entirely.

    7 10.29%
  • Yes, partially

    19 27.94%
  • No, partially

    10 14.71%
  • No, entirely

    29 42.65%
  • Other.

    3 4.41%
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Thread: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

  1. #111
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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    Is that what we're arguing? Who said "struggling to get by?" These are people with college degrees, and so they should be compared to other similarly educated workers.
    Actually, that's bull****.

    A man with a BA in Business is poised to be more productive than a man with a BA in Phys Ed.

    The MARKET determines what each is worth, when the market isn't distorted by freedom destroying goonions.

    And the market fluctuates, anyway. Some years graduates with a BS in Chemical engineering start out with more, some years graduates with a BS in aerospace start with more. That's called "life".

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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by pugetsoundwa View Post
    Unions are what made America strong,
    Funny.

    America was strong before the goonions.

    Freedom is what makes America strong.

    Loss of freedom is what's hurting it now.

  3. #113
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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Funny.

    America was strong before the goonions.

    Freedom is what makes America strong.

    Loss of freedom is what's hurting it now.
    Unions have become their own bureaucracy, whose primary function is the continuance of its own, expense account padded existence.

    I once, years ago, started a petition at a place I worked to get rid of the do nothing union we had there. I started getting calls from the union rep at all hours, and veiled threats, plus hysterics on the part of the woman.

    Challenging unions is scary.

  4. #114
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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    Maybe, but the academic requirements for 7-12 grade math teachers in my state START with calculus and go up from there.
    Calculus...oh....you mean that high school course I taught myself one summer. That's not a very high standard. In my high school, only one math teach had a masters in math. The rest didn't get that far.

    Frankly, a teacher doesn't need an advanced degree to teach the basics, especially not in something as straightforward as math.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    If teaching were so easy, so well paid, and such a great scam, more people would do it. Fact: it takes 3-5 years to become an effective teacher, but about half of those who enter the profession at the training stage quit and do something else before the end of their fifth year teaching.
    Fact, it teaching wasn't such an easy profession, there wouldn't be so many, let's face it, less than average intelligent people becoming teachers. The students studying "education" as Syracuse University uniformly found third grade science difficult. They were cute, not bright.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    All you're really saying here is that you'd teach them in light of your own political views. That's your right, but you can't expect an institution that everyone pays for to teach YOUR values to everyone.
    Of course I can expect publicly financed schools to teach the truth about history.

    Is there something wrong with expecting schools to teach facts, not fantasy?

  5. #115
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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Funny.

    America was strong before the goonions.

    Freedom is what makes America strong.

    Loss of freedom is what's hurting it now.
    the precipitous decline of the American middle class mimics the decline of unionization among its workers
    does that correlation equal causation
    what else explains it
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  6. #116
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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    It's not a matter of perspective, it's a fact that these people are not struggling to get by, which is what you were arguing.
    I never once said that they are struggling. I said that we lived on one salary, my teacher salary, and that was meager. We got by, but could not afford a BMW. What I AM saying that $60 K a year in most of CA where cost of living is among the highest in the nation, is not unreasonable considering the amount of education and training that teachers have in relation to other fields.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Actually, that's bull****.

    A man with a BA in Business is poised to be more productive than a man with a BA in Phys Ed.

    The MARKET determines what each is worth, when the market isn't distorted by freedom destroying goonions.

    And the market fluctuates, anyway. Some years graduates with a BS in Chemical engineering start out with more, some years graduates with a BS in aerospace start with more. That's called "life".
    What is actually bull**** is that teachers have every type of degree imaginable, thus making your analogy illogical. They have BA in Business, Masters degrees and PhDs. A teacher with a business degree makes what a teacher makes, far less then one that goes to work with a firm JUST AS a teacher with a Phys Ed degree makes FAR LESS than a professional trainer, a sports specialist or scientist whose primary responsibilities address health and physical fitness. Working as a sports therapist for a pro sports team is FAR MORE lucrative than teaching...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  8. #118
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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Actually, that's bull****.

    A man with a BA in Business is poised to be more productive than a man with a BA in Phys Ed.
    More productive? Measured how? Just because someone's income is higher doesn't mean they are more productive. There are lots of people running around with money made in one our various bubbles--you really think they are more productive?
    The MARKET determines what each is worth, when the market isn't distorted by freedom destroying goonions.
    You are mistaking "freedom" for capital. Not the same thing.

    The attitude you profess here suggests a personality that understands the price of everything and the value of nothing.

  9. #119
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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by pugetsoundwa View Post
    Not from a union but many teachers think that. they see their neighbors with a Master degree doing better and get jealous..they are over paid now as it is.
    I never met anyone...ever...who didn't think they deserved to make more money. A fault so widely spread among all us human is hardly something to hold against only one class of people.

  10. #120
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    Re: Are Teacher Unions a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by MyOwnDrum View Post
    My problem is when unions try to shape policy, protect incompetents, and continue to skim money with closed shops that force workers to pay union dues. They then turn to use these dues to further, usually, liberal political agendas, scratching the backs of politicians who work for the continued existence of the unions, who continue to fleece the workers.
    I'll agree with you, but I'd also note that the same activities are conducted by large businesses and industry groups. Everyone uses whatever power they have to their own advantage. Singling out teachers (not exactly a tremendously powerful group) for special spanking seems out of place to me.

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