View Poll Results: Should the 2001/2003 GWB tax cuts be extended for people that make under $250k?

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Thread: Should the 2001/2003 GWB cuts be extended?

  1. #281
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Should the 2001/2003 GWB cuts be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    A deficit is defined as the difference between spending and tax revenue. So they both cause deficits.
    nope spending causes deficits not tax cuts

    tax cuts don't have to pay for themselves


    only those who believe the government owns all wealth say that

    and there are many good reasons for tax cuts that go beyond revenue generation


    one involves castrating congressional power that has expanded far beyond waht the founders intended

    a progressive tax system allows congress to buy the votes of the many by jacking up taxes on the minority that currently pay most of the income taxes.

    once that starts there is no incentive to stop until the damage is irreversible.



  2. #282
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    Re: Should the 2001/2003 GWB cuts be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Look at the graph I posted above. That's only true for the JFK tax cuts; it is NOT true of the Reagan or Bush tax cuts. And the top marginal tax rate when JFK was president was over 90%, which I think almost everyone agrees is too high.

    Tax cuts only result in higher revenue in extreme circumstances like that. Under normal circumstances, they decrease revenue.
    you might look around and see we are in extreme circumstances right now

    remind me what the jobless rate is



  3. #283
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    Re: Should the 2001/2003 GWB cuts be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    nope spending causes deficits not tax cuts
    No. This is not a matter of opinion; you are factually incorrect. Deficits, by definition, are total outlays minus total revenues. Therefore an increase in outlays OR a decrease in revenues can cause them. This is simple math here.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude
    tax cuts don't have to pay for themselves
    That's a separate argument. You made the dishonest claim that they DO pay for themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude
    you might look around and see we are in extreme circumstances right now

    remind me what the jobless rate is
    What does that have to do with whether or not tax cuts will pay for themselves? Look, I'm against raising taxes until the unemployment rate goes down a bit. But it's simply not true that revenue is higher with lower tax rates.

    Do you understand that it's possible to favor lower taxes and/or smaller government WITHOUT making dishonest claims? A novel concept, I know.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 02-15-10 at 01:28 AM.
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  4. #284
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    Re: Should the 2001/2003 GWB cuts be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Tax cuts actually increase revenues........They did with JFK, Reagan and Bush and they stimulated the economy in all 3 cases...
    From 1950 until Reagan, our debt as a percentage of GDP never increased, and that was with a tax rate of 70% for the top tax bracket for most of the period.

    When Reagan slashed the tax rates in half for the top tax rate while increasing military spending, he tripled our debt.
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  5. #285
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    Re: Should the 2001/2003 GWB cuts be extended?

    statists labor under the delusion that taxpayers have a duty to pay more and more as long as the government spends. One of the best reasons for tax cuts is to starve the beast (assuming the statists are right that tax cuts decrease revenue)

    given the sad fact that net tax consumers will always vote for more spending since they don't pay for it and given the sad fact that a minority pays most of the federal income taxes, expecting politicians who cater and pander to the parasite class to actually cut spending is a pipe dream



  6. #286
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    Re: Should the 2001/2003 GWB cuts be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    statists labor under the delusion that taxpayers have a duty to pay more and more as long as the government spends. One of the best reasons for tax cuts is to starve the beast (assuming the statists are right that tax cuts decrease revenue)

    given the sad fact that net tax consumers will always vote for more spending since they don't pay for it and given the sad fact that a minority pays most of the federal income taxes, expecting politicians who cater and pander to the parasite class to actually cut spending is a pipe dream
    As I have shown, the wealthy pay only a fraction of what the payed through most of our county's history. And I've shown we had less debt as a percentage of GDP when the taxes for the top tax bracket was higher.

    If you wish to discuss spending, we need to start with where our biggest waste is, in our bloated military budget that is as much as the rest of the world combined, and our unfunded wars.
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  7. #287
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    Re: Should the 2001/2003 GWB cuts be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    As I have shown, the wealthy pay only a fraction of what the payed through most of our county's history. And I've shown we had less debt as a percentage of GDP when the taxes for the top tax bracket was higher.

    If you wish to discuss spending, we need to start with where our biggest waste is, in our bloated military budget that is as much as the rest of the world combined, and our unfunded wars.
    you are being dishonest. until less than 100 years ago the wealthy paid no income tax and until FDR came along, it was less than 5% of their income

    the military isn't our biggest bloated budget item-again you are dishonest

    its all the unconstitutional (if the constitution was properly interpreted) income redistribution nonsense and entitlement spending

    so please stop lying--I know history way too well to believe the garbage that the wealthy are paying less now than the majority of US history



  8. #288
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    Re: Should the 2001/2003 GWB cuts be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    statists labor under the delusion that taxpayers have a duty to pay more and more as long as the government spends. One of the best reasons for tax cuts is to starve the beast (assuming the statists are right that tax cuts decrease revenue)

    given the sad fact that net tax consumers will always vote for more spending since they don't pay for it and given the sad fact that a minority pays most of the federal income taxes, expecting politicians who cater and pander to the parasite class to actually cut spending is a pipe dream
    That prediction about the poor constantly increasing taxes for everyone is clearly false.

    In Europe, where income taxes are even more progressive, the parties and their supporters understand that there is a limit to the amount of progressive taxation, and their political culture overall is even more inclined for progressive taxation then Americans are.

    therefore, just because we have progressive taxation that doesn't mean that spending will go up indefinately.

  9. #289
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    Re: Should the 2001/2003 GWB cuts be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    That prediction about the poor constantly increasing taxes for everyone is clearly false.

    In Europe, where income taxes are even more progressive, the parties and their supporters understand that there is a limit to the amount of progressive taxation, and their political culture overall is even more inclined for progressive taxation then Americans are.

    therefore, just because we have progressive taxation that doesn't mean that spending will go up indefinately.
    is there any limit to what the top 1% should have to pay in your mind. MOre than a quarter is confiscatory in my mind and right now lots of people pay close to half their income in taxes once you figure in state, local, and federal taxes. If you leave more than a million than you end paying even more

    I don't trust dem politicians to stop at a certain point if they think they can buy the votes of the minions

    the income tax and the death tax never would have even received 15% support if the current numbers were contemplated when those taxes were passed.



  10. #290
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    Re: Should the 2001/2003 GWB cuts be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are being dishonest. until less than 100 years ago the wealthy paid no income tax and until FDR came along, it was less than 5% of their income
    You are pretty cocky for someone that wasn't even aware that our top tax rate used to be 90%. Please review again the income tax history provided earlier by mbig ~

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1058560070

    Notice the date income taxes began - 1913 and what the rates were. FDR's first term began in 1933.

    the military isn't our biggest bloated budget item-again you are dishonest
    I didn't say it was the biggest, I said it was the most wasteful.

    its all the unconstitutional (if the constitution was properly interpreted) income redistribution nonsense and entitlement spending.
    Not according to the rule of law.

    so please stop lying--I know history way too well to believe the garbage that the wealthy are paying less now than the majority of US history.
    Again, you need to review our tax history. As Daniel Patrick Moynihan pointed out, "You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts."
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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