What should the future of the US in Haiti be?

Cephus said:

I never said that, but those slaves can't just turn around to their former masters and hold out their hand either. If you want to be independent, you need to be independent.

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I don't believe Haiti is ready, at this point, to be independent. Which means that someone needs to take responsibility for them. I would say that the country which is morally obligated to do so, at this point in time, is France.

And they've had time and at least a modicum of financial success over the years where they could have started implementing that, seeking foreign advisors, etc. They just didn't. They made quite a bit of money from sugar and rum exports. Where did that money go?

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I think the issue is...How can Haiti be redirected to become more like the Dominican Republic?

Island Divide: Haiti vs. the Dominican Republic

Catz Part Deux said:

I don't believe Haiti is ready, at this point, to be independent. Which means that someone needs to take responsibility for them. I would say that the country which is morally obligated to do so, at this point in time, is France.

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And I'm sure that the last country the Haitian people want anything to do with are the French.

This is the first real opportunity to add a state or territory to the Union in over 50 years. Since the last state or significant territory was added to the US to the present has been the longest period of lack of expansion in US history. On top of that when was the last time America was so popular people were asking to become part of our country? Not since the end of WW2 when it might have been possible for Newfoundland or Greenland to join the US. I think its exciting.

You think the idea of becoming an indefinite benefactor to a vast hole of suck is a good thing?

God save us all.

The needs are extraordinary, and the common refrain is that the Americans will provide.

"I want the Americans to take over the country. The Haitian government can't do anything for us," said Jean-Louis Geffrard, a laborer who lives under a tarp in the crowded square. "When we tell the government we're hungry, the government says, 'We're hungry, too.' "

Added Canga Matthieu, a medical student whose school was destroyed: "The American government should take care of us."

"They're well organized. The United States is the richest country in the world, and they can help."

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That's very flattering, but NO. We're currently fighting two wars, our country has a trillion dollar deficit whose interest payments consumes 20% of our taxes, and we can't even provide healthcare for our citizens.

HELL NO.

Catz Part Deux said:

You think the idea of becoming an indefinite benefactor to a vast hole of suck is a good thing?

God save us all.



That's very flattering, but NO. We're currently fighting two wars, our country has a trillion dollar deficit whose interest payments consumes 20% of our taxes, and we can't even provide healthcare for our citizens.

HELL NO.

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If they want to petition for statehood and it's approved, fine. It might take many years, but if that's the route they want to go, I'm fine with it. Of course, they get to kiss Haiti goodbye as an independent state forever, once they join, there's no going back.

How many do you think will go for it?

Cephus said:

If they want to petition for statehood and it's approved, fine. It might take many years, but if that's the route they want to go, I'm fine with it. Of course, they get to kiss Haiti goodbye as an independent state forever, once they join, there's no going back.

How many do you think will go for it?

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Haiti is so poor and destitute, most of the population would end up on the welfare rolls.

Bad idea.

Cephus said:

If they want to petition for statehood and it's approved, fine. It might take many years, but if that's the route they want to go, I'm fine with it. Of course, they get to kiss Haiti goodbye as an independent state forever, once they join, there's no going back.

How many do you think will go for it?

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Very few. They want us to be the benevolent great (white) father, but gtfo when they're finished cashing the check.

I'd rather have Mexico as a state, frankly.

MyOwnDrum said:

Haiti is so poor and destitute, most of the population would end up on the welfare rolls.

Bad idea.

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I don't think for a second that the U.S. population would vote to admit them so it's hardly a problem.

Catz Part Deux said:

Very few. They want us to be the benevolent great (white) father, but gtfo when they're finished cashing the check.

I'd rather have Mexico as a state, frankly.

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Sad, but true.

I agree.

No poll option I agreed with.

I dont believe we as a country should be doing anything. It is cases such as these that should be left to private charities such as the red cross. The American (and world) people can help if they wish without being forced to.

The Mark said:

How does some area of land become a territory of the US?

Can they ask to be accepted as such?

I don't no ANYTHING about this.

And your spell-check needs updating.

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Yours too. :mrgreen:

MyOwnDrum said:

Haiti is so poor and destitute, most of the population would end up on the welfare rolls.

Bad idea.

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Democrat voters.

American said:

Democrat voters.

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Indeed. No conservative uses any of the country's welfare system.

Certainly the US has no responsibility for Haiti other than immediate relief from this catastrophe.

Once the Haitian Government can get back full control, the US should leave post haste.

jujuman13 said:

Certainly the US has no responsibility for Haiti other than immediate relief from this catastrophe.

Once the Haitian Government can get back full control, the US should leave post haste.

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I agree....
It's so bad Filipinos are leaving......

Wiseone said:

Its becoming increasing apartment that simply keep the Haitians from starving is not going to be a permanent or ideal solution. As most of their capital was destroyed they also need to engage in things such as rebuilding and reforming their government. The problem is they do not have the capacity to do either, neither the machines, resources, or technical know-how is present within the country. Also their government is for all practical purposes destroyed, the President was sleeping in the airport on waiting benches, their government builds are destroyed, many staff and officials are dead, there's no way to communicate with other aspects of the government such as police or military, and there's no way to stage an election.

In the face of all this many Haitians are calling for the US to take over the country, permanently. Thoughts?

washingtonpost.com

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youre leaving out option 3. build a military base used for an invasion of venezuela to rob their oil. that is the real motive behind the u.s. going in there.

cope2 said:

youre leaving out option 3. build a military base used for an invasion of venezuela to rob their oil. that is the real motive behind the u.s. going in there.

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The US is close enough that we need not bother using Haiti as a staging point......
Once Chavez crashes Venezuela's economy, they will be begging for the U.S. to take them over as well.........

Catz Part Deux said:

India and most of the British colonies have remained fairly stable in comparison to those that were literally destroyed by the French and Spanish. The French, in particular, were really bad about raping countries and then abandoning them.

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Well not really given that there was mass ethnic cleansing in both India and Cyprus, the latter being close to a genocide.

Catz Part Deux said:

I agree. However, the U.S. was responding to an unstable situation right on our doorstep, the instability was created by the French/Spanish. They bear the bulk of the responsibility, morally and financially.

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Unstable in the sense that an ideologically unfavorable government could have taken over where there not anyone to prop up Duvalier. Support for Duvalier was based on keeping in place an economic system that which meet U.S corporate interests but not those of the Haitian people. It is no different from 19th century colonialism in that respect.

Catz Part Deux said:

I have zero problems with this. In fact, I think Haiti needs a blank slate.

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A blank slate and several centuries worth of reparations.

Wiseone said:

In the face of all this many Haitians are calling for the US to take over the country, permanently. Thoughts?

washingtonpost.com

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I say feed them for a little while then leave. If they want us to take over it should be on the grounds that they become the 51st states,adopt English as their language and fly only our flag.

jamesrage said:

I say feed them for a little while then leave. If they want us to take over it should be on the grounds that they become the 51st states,adopt English as their language and fly only our flag.

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We already have enough useless slave descendants, why in the world do we need more?.....
& that doesn't mean they are all worthless......

Catz, you're barking up the wrong tree in looking to France and Spain to provide all the resources for rebuilding Haiti. Both certainly have historic culpability in their treatment of the place but to say that Spain (who ceased any involvement with Haiti in 1697) and France (1810) should shoulder sole (or dual) responsibility would make all former colonial powers responsible for all problems in former colonies. It's just not workable.

To those who think the US should take over I'd say, go ahead provided a) the Haitians vote for it and b) your Congress agrees to it on the basis of full equality of treatment for Haiti as for any other state. I suspect that neither of these would happen however.

As for this belief, often expressed on DP, that the US is the only country committing real aid to Haiti, that couldn't be further from the truth. I don't know how much the US government has pledged (originally $100m, but I think this may have gone up) but the EU has pledged $575m in relief and reconstruction aid. This does not include the $450m France alone has pledged. This is neither insignificant nor half-hearted. In addition there have been thousands of volunteers and military personnel from dozens of different countries digging people out from under buildings, treating the injured, feeding the displaced and beginning to fix things up. The US ain't the only ones helping.

Let's make them the 51st state.

Get to hell out of there, of course.