View Poll Results: Who, if anyone, should the State force on birth control?

Voters
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  • The mentally retarded

    31 31.00%
  • Those with genetic diseases that will cost the State

    29 29.00%
  • Drug addicts

    35 35.00%
  • Child abusers

    36 36.00%
  • Those receiving government assistance (food stamps, welfare)

    41 41.00%
  • Those who've already had 2 or 3 kids (overpopulation)

    15 15.00%
  • Anyone failing a psychological test

    14 14.00%
  • Women over 35 (Higher rate of genetic anomalies)

    3 3.00%
  • Girls under 18

    21 21.00%
  • Forced birth control is a violation of basic human rights

    52 52.00%
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Thread: Who, if anyone, should be put on State mandated birth control?

  1. #51
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    Re: Who, if anyone, should be put on State mandated birth control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    How is a subdermal implant that releases hormones a cruel and unusual punishment or an excessive fine?
    If putting a little needle in someone's body to kill them "humanely" is argued to be C&UP, then putting a little needle in someone's body to control them is also C&UP.

  2. #52
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    Re: Who, if anyone, should be put on State mandated birth control?

    since we all basically agree that mandated birth control is contra a basic human right, I argue that those who violate other people's rights (right of property) through increased taxes due to a welfare system should either not be given publicly funded child support or failing that, not permitted to have children.

    It'd be kind of like jail time. Those that offend another person's human rights are locked up at least in part so that they cannot continue behaviors that infringe on the rights of others.

    Given a situation where having more children than one can reasonably support would infringe on the rights of others (almost always) then the removal of rights is a perfectly rational and legitimate response.

  3. #53
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    Re: Who, if anyone, should be put on State mandated birth control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    It's always the taxpayer's dollar, and there's this bizarre document that limits what the Republic can spend that money on.

    Forced sterilization is a natural by-product of the elitist thought processes that lead to socialism. "It's not the person's body, it's the State's."
    No one made the argument that the body does not belong to the person. If you can show where that argument was made I will address it, too.

    And no, it is most certain NOT the tax payer's coin once it goes into the coffers of the Republic. It is the coin of the State and is spent on those things the State is granted power to provide.

    If you can show me one instance in this "bizarre document" where the State's revenues are still the property of the tax payer, then you might have a point. As far as I understand, the Constitution makes no such provision for public ownership of the Republic's coffers.

  4. #54
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    Re: Who, if anyone, should be put on State mandated birth control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    If putting a little needle in someone's body to kill them "humanely" is argued to be C&UP, then putting a little needle in someone's body to control them is also C&UP.
    So you are saying that you believe lethal injection is cruel and unusual punishment?
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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    Re: Who, if anyone, should be put on State mandated birth control?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    No one made the argument that the body does not belong to the person. If you can show where that argument was made I will address it, too.

    And no, it is most certain NOT the tax payer's coin once it goes into the coffers of the Republic. It is the coin of the State and is spent on those things the State is granted power to provide.

    If you can show me one instance in this "bizarre document" where the State's revenues are still the property of the tax payer, then you might have a point. As far as I understand, the Constitution makes no such provision for public ownership of the Republic's coffers.
    The ownership of property is ultimately determined by who has control of it.

    The state owns the house you live in, because you pay the state rent to occupy it. This rent is also called "property tax", but if you don't pay it, the landlord, the state, evicts you.

    If the state can compel a surgical operation done to a person's body, then the state controls the body, and hence is the de facto owner. Everyone in the military recognizes the truth of this.

    Also, Rousseau's The Social Contract makes the argument that because the King so nicely allows you to live in His kingdom, He can take your body and destroy it in any war He feels like having.

    Socialist tracts are so enlightening, aren't they?

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    Re: Who, if anyone, should be put on State mandated birth control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    So you are saying that you believe lethal injection is cruel and unusual punishment?
    Hell no.

    I'm saying stupid people who make that argument are strangely on the other side of the bar when it comes to forced sterilization of citizens.

    As far as I'm concerned condemned murderers should be executed before the moon's phase is repeated. I don't care how.

  7. #57
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    Re: Who, if anyone, should be put on State mandated birth control?

    Yep - Drug addicts (illicit) and Child abusers.

    Can't be a decent human - you don't get to have children that you'll fail to care for.
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    Re: Who, if anyone, should be put on State mandated birth control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    The ownership of property is ultimately determined by who has control of it.
    Right. Now you need to establish what "control" involves.

    The state owns the house you live in, because you pay the state rent to occupy it. This rent is also called "property tax", but if you don't pay it, the landlord, the state, evicts you.
    The state does not own the house because it charges property tax. Property tax is an obligation of land owning gentry to the State to share the burden of funding public works, national defense of the property they own, costly infrastructure to and from the property, public safety, etc.

    Calling property tax "rent" is patently absurd and blatantly dishonest.

    If the state can compel a surgical operation done to a person's body, then the state controls the body, and hence is the de facto owner. Everyone in the military recognizes the truth of this.
    Wrong. The State does not compel a surgical operation. The criminal relinquishes control to the State when she does not adhere to the law. The compeling of a surgical operation is not an assumption of ownership of the body; it is a penal response to a public menace.

    Also, Rousseau's The Social Contract makes the argument that because the King so nicely allows you to live in His kingdom, He can take your body and destroy it in any war He feels like having.

    Well Yippy Skippy for Rousseau and his king. We don't have nor ever will have a king. We do not live in a Kingdom and our representatives do not take our bodies and destroy them in any war they feel like having. We volunteer for our military service and there are guidelines that must be followed in determining whether we go to war or not.

    Your entire comment on Rousseau and his king were irrelevant.

    Socialist tracts are so enlightening, aren't they?
    There was nothing socialist about that. It was a description of an authoritative monarchy. Which, by the way, is also irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

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    Re: Who, if anyone, should be put on State mandated birth control?

    People receiving government assistance like welfare. That's not a mandate, that's not forced. It would simply be a precondition to getting paid by the government. Much like they should also be required to do 20+ hours of community service.

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    Re: Who, if anyone, should be put on State mandated birth control?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    People receiving government assistance like welfare. That's not a mandate, that's not forced. It would simply be a precondition to getting paid by the government. Much like they should also be required to do 20+ hours of community service.
    I don't agree that people receiving welfare should be forced to take birth control. That's where you are a crossing a line and widening lattitude from a "judicial response to a crime" to "stop the undesirables from breeding".

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