View Poll Results: Should home-schooling be illegal?

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  • Yes

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Thread: Should home-schooling be illegal?

  1. #51
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    Re: Should home-schooling be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    I know someone who lived there who says that the place is chalk full of nonsense restrictions such as this.
    chock. you're welcome. ;-)

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  2. #52
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    Re: Should home-schooling be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Like some others have said, I'm not a big fan of home schooling either. I think homeschooled kids don't always get the best education,
    HSLDA | Homeschooled Students Excel in College

    Homeschoolers score higher than 86% of peers

    HSLDA | HOMESCHOOLERS SCORE HIGHER ON ACT COLLEGE ENTRANCE EXAM



    and I also think they don't learn important social skills.

    Do you think these parents just lock their kids in the house and never let them play outside or have friends?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  3. #53
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    Re: Should home-schooling be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo View Post
    Well maybe, but both the schools I have been to were like that. So they can't all be that bad. Like I'm not sure I agree with home schooling being illegal, but I think kids get a lot of religious and social prejudice that way. Like if mummy or daddy says that - it has to be right (especially when you are younger,) but you can question what that old poof Mr Humphries says.
    Leo, you have been fortunate. I mean, your parents even sent you all the way to Australia (or is it the other way round? You're an Aussie studying in England?). But in any case, government schools in the UK can be pretty lousy, especially in London, that's why most parents work hard to send their kids to public schools. I volunteered quite a bit, once I almost cried. Sometimes the teachers are in their early 20's, just graduated from college. Some don't know what they are doing. As for the kids, if they want to go to college, that marks them as bright, as quite a few don't think of college as part of their future.

  4. #54
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    Re: Should home-schooling be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    It is amazing to me how people who say they are tolerant are so intolerant.

    So because a child can have the same beliefs as the parent (good or bad) this is somehow wrong? God forbid people should pass on what they believe to be right to their children. How dare parents raise their own children when the state can do it!
    thats a good point, but then the parents could be intolerant bastards, and that's not exactly a good thing for them to learn

  5. #55
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    Re: Should home-schooling be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I don't see why not as long as they pass the required exams for their state.
    That's the problem, there are states where it is not required to pass any exams and the only kids who ever bother to take the exams are the ones who are headed to college, which skews the results for home schoolers. When only the best and the brightest get tested, the results are made to look like home schools produce only the best and the brightest.

    I have no problem with home schooling, I just think it needs a lot more regulation and independent testing and evaluation.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  6. #56
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    Re: Should home-schooling be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    It is amazing to me how people who say they are tolerant are so intolerant.

    So because a child can have the same beliefs as the parent (good or bad) this is somehow wrong? God forbid people should pass on what they believe to be right to their children. How dare parents raise their own children when the state can do it!
    Well, first off, I have never claimed to be tolerant or intolerant, I'm just giving my opinion, so save your outrage.

    I am saying that it is easy for parents to pass their prejudices, religious or otherwise, on to children, and if those children have minimal interaction outside the home, then there is little influence to counter what amounts to indoctrination. Obviously I am not talking about values like fairness, decency, and tolerance. These are values supported by society in general, and interaction with other elements of society will only reinforce them. But bigotry, religious intolerance, etc. need to be viewed through the prism of society in general. No one is suggesting the state be given carte blanche to indoctrinate children, just that the sole influence of the home is not always balanced. So interaction with society at large is beneficial to children.

  7. #57
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    Re: Should home-schooling be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    Leo, you have been fortunate. I mean, your parents even sent you all the way to Australia (or is it the other way round? You're an Aussie studying in England?). But in any case, government schools in the UK can be pretty lousy, especially in London, that's why most parents work hard to send their kids to public schools. I volunteered quite a bit, once I almost cried. Sometimes the teachers are in their early 20's, just graduated from college. Some don't know what they are doing. As for the kids, if they want to go to college, that marks them as bright, as quite a few don't think of college as part of their future.
    Yes, I guess I am fortunate in the sense that my dad (who died when I was young) left a trust to be used for the sole purpose of my education all the way to university. I am a boarder in Public School in Australia, and I understand that it is an elite school, but I have friends who go to the Australian equivalent of a comprehensive or grammar school, and they are not thugs, and seem quite well educated. I know some government schools can suck, but not all, and there are some selective ones around Sydney that have a very good academic record. I feel sure it would be better for children to be educated at schools like that, than to depend upon a parent who is unlikely to be qualified sufficiently in the entire range of subjects required. And this leaves aside any question of religious indoctrination, or any other prejudice.

  8. #58
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    Re: Should home-schooling be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    No. Your inability to read is amazing :
    What? So by trying to prove that the number is higher than 72%, you show that it's actually 33%?

    From your source:

    According to a 2001 U.S. Census survey, 33% of homeschooling households cited religion as a factor in their choice. The same study found that 30% felt school had a poor learning environment, 14% objected to what the school teaches, 11% felt their children were not being challenged at school, and 9% cited morality.[20]
    According to the U.S. DOE's "Homeschooling in the United States: 2003", 85 percent of homeschooling parents cited "the social environments of other forms of schooling" (including safety, drugs, sexual harassment, bullying and negative peer-pressure) as an important reason why they homeschool. 72 percent cited "to provide religious or moral instruction" as an important reason, and 68 percent cited "dissatisfaction with academic instruction at other schools."[13] 7 percent cited "Child has physical or mental health problem", 7 percent cited "Child has other special needs", 9 percent cited "Other reasons" (including "child's choice," "allows parents more control of learning" and "flexibility").[13]
    "Religious and moral instruction" was just one "important reason" among many, and not even the most cited. That's ignoring the fact that it's religious and moral instruction, so the number for whom religion is an important factor probably is less than 72%.

    As for a primary factor, here's from CC's source:

    Parents were asked which of the reasons they homeschooled was the most important reason. Figure 2 and table 4 show the most important reasons students were being homeschooled in 2003, as reported by parents of homeschooled students. Concern about the environment of other schools and to provide religious or moral instruction were the top two most important reasons cited. About a third of students had parents who cited concern about the environment of other schools as their most important reason for homeschooling (31 percent). Approximately another third of homeschooled students had parents who were homeschooling primarily to provide religious or moral instruction (30 percent). Sixteen percent of homeschooled students had parents whose primary reason for homeschooling was dissatisfaction with the academic instruction available at other schools, making this the third most common primary reason for homeschooling.
    That's why I said it dropped to 30% when it's listed a the primary factor ("moral" is still there too, so it could theoretically be even less than that). But of course, I guess we can't trust polls of Christians because they're a bunch of liars

    It has nothing to do with "primary" factors. Please read. And that number does not drop to anything. One study is by the census the other is by the DoE. One study allows for a single option and once again these options are flawed in the end. If I believe the schooling conditions are poor in schools and I'd do a better job, I don't have to put religion as a factor now do I? It is just another case of Christian smokescreen for true intent.
    It's kind of weird to hear you say that Christians are flat out lying about their intent when I know several people who are/were homeschooled for non-religious reasons, and absolutely none who were homeschooled for religious reasons. Anecdotal, I know, but I still have no idea why you're so hell-bent on painting homeschooling as an overwhelmingly Christian thing, no matter what the numbers say. How many homeschooled people do you know?

  9. #59
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    Re: Should home-schooling be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    That's the problem, there are states where it is not required to pass any exams and the only kids who ever bother to take the exams are the ones who are headed to college, which skews the results for home schoolers. When only the best and the brightest get tested, the results are made to look like home schools produce only the best and the brightest.
    In my admittedly limited experience, all of the homeschooled children I have known go to college. That's one of the benefits of having educated parents who are interested in their childrens' education enough to actually provide it for them. Most of the homeschoolers I know are in networking groups. It's not that a single parent educates only their own children. They network with other home-schoolers and/or enroll their kids in college courses prior to high school graduation eligibility, in order to expose the kids to more intellectually stimulating environments.

    These parents are not frumpy women sitting around the house in their long dresses and hair pulled into a bun, sans make-up. They are educated and dedicated to the well-being of their children.
    Last edited by lizzie; 01-29-10 at 12:57 PM.

  10. #60
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    Re: Should home-schooling be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo View Post
    Well, first off, I have never claimed to be tolerant or intolerant, I'm just giving my opinion, so save your outrage.
    Not outrage, surprise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo View Post
    I am saying that it is easy for parents to pass their prejudices, religious or otherwise, on to children, and if those children have minimal interaction outside the home, then there is little influence to counter what amounts to indoctrination.
    So parents should not have anything to do with raising their own children? Or as you put it as little contact as possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo View Post
    Obviously I am not talking about values like fairness, decency, and tolerance. These are values supported by society in general, and interaction with other elements of society will only reinforce them.
    Maybe if you live in Utopia, because no place else on earth will you find those values in any great amount outside of the home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo View Post
    But bigotry, religious intolerance, etc. need to be viewed through the prism of society in general. No one is suggesting the state be given carte blanche to indoctrinate children, just that the sole influence of the home is not always balanced. So interaction with society at large is beneficial to children.
    I agree that interaction as in social contact is a good thing, but it is no less positive or negative than in the home. Our homes be they religious or otherwise tend to be reflections of our society and visa versa.

    So far no proof of any kind has been offered to show why home schooling should be illegal.
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