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Should home-schooling be illegal?

Should home-schooling be illegal?

  • Total voters
    84
Harry Guerrilla said:
I will have to disagree if we are talking about the population at large.
Individuals who use more advanced information, it's probably true.

A lot of people still believe old wife tales and things that have been proven untrue.
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I'm talking about the US at large. The majority of the population uses far more advanced information... and a lot more of it than folks in the 1700's

I know you agree on that but I get super annoyed at detractors, it makes me boil.
No one has presented anything that says a child, educated at home, is of a lesser quality.
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I posted some a long time ago. I'd have to go look for it. It wasn't conclusive from what I recall. Methodologically, there were a lot of flaws. Just like in schools, I think some children, educated at home do very well, and some do not. I have my own reasons, from observations and from my overall theory of what types of education schools provide that lead me to not be a fan of homeschooling. From what I remember of the data I produced, the results were inconclusive.
 
B L Zeebub said:
BlackDog mate, there is a poster , he was banned from PF for his religious bigotry and vile Homophobic statements.

He converted To Islam, prior to his conversion he claimed he was a Fundy homophobic Christian Sunday school teacher.

He now home schools his new family as a Fundy homophobic Muslim bigot.

How many from either camp are out there legally poisoning there children's minds.
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As long as he is not breaking the law, it's no ones business but his own.

B L Zeebub said:
I don't disagree with homeschooling per se but the authorities must strictly regulate it, that probably does not happen because of costs.
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As long as the kid can past the tests assigned by the state, no need to get yet ANOTHER DCFS type org involved in family life.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
I disagree. Advancements in ALL fields in the last 300 years have been tremendous. There is far more information out there now then there was, then. Then, the amount of information needed was far less. It IS about quantity.
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And yet all of us aren't engineers, doctors or rocket scientists are we? It has nothing to do with the amount of information we have available.

The smart people are still the smart people and the not so smart are still the lower classes. That has not changed and it never will.

CaptainCourtesy said:
Which is why I said it was irrelevant.
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I don't know what put you in such a foul mood but I was AGREEING WITH YOU ON THIS. :roll:
 
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Blackdog said:
And yet all of us aren't engineers, doctors or rocket scientists are we? It has nothing to do with the amount of information we have available.

The smart people are still the smart people and the not so smart are still the lower classes. That has not changed and it never will.
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Even though those who are not as smart, STILL have require the use of far more information than our founders did.

I don't know what put you in such a foul mood but I was AGREEING WITH YOU ON THIS. :roll:
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I wasn't in a foul mood, particularly, though I noticed the tone of my posts could appear this way. My apologies. I was doing some complex moderation at the same time and I think it seeped over into my posts. Nothing towards you or Harry. Tough week, too.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Even though those who are not as smart, STILL have require the use of far more information than our founders did.
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I agree it does, but a lawyer then is much the same as a lawyer now etc. The amount of information has little to do with the aptitude or ability of the founders to think critically.

CaptainCourtesy said:
I wasn't in a foul mood, particularly, though I noticed the tone of my posts could appear this way. My apologies. I was doing some complex moderation at the same time and I think it seeped over into my posts. Nothing towards you or Harry. Tough week, too.
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Sorry to here that. Hopefully things will improve this week.
 
Blackdog said:
I agree it does, but a lawyer then is much the same as a lawyer now etc. The amount of information has little to do with the aptitude or ability of the founders to think critically.
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That I would agree with. However, what they have to know to BE a lawyer, has change.



Sorry to here that. Hopefully things will improve this week.
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I'm guessing they will.
 
B L Zeebub said:
I see, the good old principle of don't ask dont tell:)
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No. The good old principle of he is not doing anything illegal.

Huge difference between "don't ask don't tell" and it's none of your business. :2razz:
 
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Blackdog said:
No. The good old principle of he is not doing anything illegal.

Huge difference between "don't ask don't tell" and it's none of your business. :2razz:
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how would you know?
 
B L Zeebub said:
how would you know?
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Because you told me?

"BlackDog mate, there is a poster , he was banned from PF for his religious bigotry and vile Homophobic statements.

He converted To Islam, prior to his conversion he claimed he was a Fundy homophobic Christian Sunday school teacher.

He now home schools his new family as a Fundy homophobic Muslim bigot.

How many from either camp are out there legally poisoning there children's minds. - B L Zeebub

It is not a crime to be...

#1 A Fundy
#2 A Homophobe
#3 A Muslim
#4 A bigot

We don't arrest people for thought crime.

So as I said, it's not "don't ask don't tell" it is not illegal, and none of your business.
 
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Camlon said:
I don't think it should be illigal, but I'm no fan of it. Kids needs to socialice with other kids. School is a good place for kids to develop social skills. However, instead we should open for more charter schools and allow them to pick any school in their state if their grades are good enough, so the kids have alternatives and schools need to compete.
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What's wrong with parents having a right to choose the kind of education they want for their children? If a parent is qualified and wants to home school, why should that be the government's business? Our public schools are pretty much failures. A little more learnig and a lot less socializing would be a good thing. They can do that AFTER school along with the home schooled kids.
I'm for Charter schools too, but that's just another choice that should be made by the parents.
 
Cephus said:
Parents taught kids what they knew, that was it. Today, kids need to know things their parents just aren't equipped to teach, things that most parents just don't know.
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If most parents, having been educated in the public school system, don't know the material that you feel is essential that our children be taught isn't that a fairly compelling argument that our public school system doesn't teach that material adequately in the first place? After all, there isn't that much difference between the school curricula that my mother learned, that I learned, and that is being taught in the public schools today.

After thirteen years of public school and two years of community college, I'm still primarily self-educated. Now, I'm not discounting the role my own social maladaption played in creating this state of affairs, but it still seems as though any halfway adequate parents could have done a better job.

nonpareil said:
Honest truth is, if I can't afford to send my kids (if or when I have them) to a good school I can trust, I would rather teach them myself or at the least supplement their education at home.

...

Being in 6th form and not be able to read properly, that's a really bad thing. When that happens, and I seen that often in the schools I volunteered, all the school does is blame the parents. And maybe it's the fault of the parents for not taking their children's education into their own hands.
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The reason that the public schools are necessary is that, indeed, not all parents are equipped to provide their children with a quality education, either through their own efforts or through their capacity to pay for a quality private education. I'd say that this means is that public schools should be only for the children of those parents; they're welfare schools. The fact that public school is the default assumption, employed by the majority of parents, indicates that something has gone horribly wrong.

If public schooling is to be the norm, instead of part of the social safety net, then it needs to be considerably more robust.
 
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B L Zeebub said:
as an atheist who is ambivalent to people of faith, but has controlled contempt for organized religion.
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I believe a lot of Baptist homeschool; and by and large Baptists are not a "organized" religion. BTW one can belong to an organized religion and still distrust the organization. :mrgreen:

B L Zeebub said:
The quality education of our children should be the reason detre of any civilized society.
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I have no argument with you there. But here in the US it is mostly what some splinter groups ( Creationists, Relativist, Child Righters, and other group thinkers) want and what the teacher unions want (which is not the same thing a what the teachers want) along with the Pols (who like to stand before ribbons to be cut as opposed to setting non-visible standards that would be more important.) The problem with government schools is a blanket solution a one size fits all which modern Cognitive Theories show is wrong.


B L Zeebub said:
This enables children to make lucid decisions, that is why I support the law of the land in the UK that all children in Government funded schools should have a set minimum number of hours of religious instruction a week.
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:confused: I need you to expand on this to understand what you mean.

B L Zeebub said:
It is no surprise to me that after 40 or 50 yrs of this law, we have the lowest number of actively religious people in our country. I therefore as an Atheist hope you implement a similar laws in your country.
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Your county has a state religion. Ours do not. Yours probably require that all people who belong to an organized religion to Tithe and have proof of the Tithe to their church by the IRS (Inland Revenue Service ( I just knew that)). That would be an explanation of the lack of actively religious people in BG.

And establishing a requirement for religious instruction in government schools is not going to happen in the US due to the 1st Amendment.

B L Zeebub said:
BlackDog mate, there is a poster , he was banned from PF for his religious bigotry and vile Homophobic statements.

He converted To Islam, prior to his conversion he claimed he was a Fundy homophobic Christian Sunday school teacher.

He now home schools his new family as a Fundy homophobic Muslim bigot.


How many from either camp are out there legally poisoning there children's minds.
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BlackDog said most of it for me. One could put that Fundy in a standard classroom and poison even more minds. Would you accept that as an acceptable reason to end government school instruction? If not, how is your argument one that shows homeschooling is detrimental in general?

B L Zeebub said:
I don't disagree with homeschooling per se but the authorities must strictly regulate it, that probably does not happen because of costs.
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In what way? Passing standard achievement tests? Jame Rage already addressed that. Moral or Ethical standards? Child Endangerment, and Contributing Delinquency to a Minor laws address that. What more must be regulated to make it merely O.K. ?
 
Barbbtx said:
What's wrong with parents having a right to choose the kind of education they want for their children? If a parent is qualified and wants to home school, why should that be the government's business? Our public schools are pretty much failures. A little more learnig and a lot less socializing would be a good thing. They can do that AFTER school along with the home schooled kids.
I'm for Charter schools too, but that's just another choice that should be made by the parents.
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Home schooling should not, must not, be illegal.
But who determines if the parent is competent, and how?
To do this, it must be our government's business.
Note the "our", replacing "the"...its OUR government.
Its simply not true that the schools are failures..
But some are, and why is this?????
 
jamesrage said:
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects
the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices
something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience:
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So then I could call Reagonomics a religion of the far right. Reagan their savior and Nancy well, not a virgin by any means. I could also call Republo-Fascism another religion worshipped by todays far right..
 
pugetsoundwa said:
So then I could call Reagonomics a religion of the far right. Reagan their savior and Nancy well, not a virgin by any means. I could also call Republo-Fascism another religion worshipped by todays far right..
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Not all religions involve the belief in a deity.
 
Hatuey said:
Does this mean you support Sharia law? Obviously if you support these people taking control of their own education then you should have no problem with Muslims controlling their own marriages? No. I'd rather home schooling be made illegal. It is nothing more than double talk for being religiously backwards. This family is nothing new. Their fears of "persecution" is a smokescreen for wanting to teach their kids religious nonsense in the place of actual knowledge. If they want to do that in their churches that is fine but if they live in a secular society like ours their children should go to our schools.
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That's ridiculous. Nothing here indicates that religious instruction is replacing academic instruction.
 
Barbbtx said:
What's wrong with parents having a right to choose the kind of education they want for their children? If a parent is qualified and wants to home school, why should that be the government's business? Our public schools are pretty much failures. A little more learnig and a lot less socializing would be a good thing. They can do that AFTER school along with the home schooled kids.
I'm for Charter schools too, but that's just another choice that should be made by the parents.
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Some parents would take care of their kids in a very good way. They will make sure they socialize with other kids in the area, but some won't. Some kids will just end up staying at home, doing very little. and don't get their social skills up. I'm not living in the US today, but where I previously lived, you would have a hard time being home-schooled, because most of the socializing was going through school. If you wanted to do sports, then you would need to participate in school sports. Also, the kids got most of their friends through school.

However, I'm not against home-schooling or think that it should be illegal, but it should be restricted.

However, what we should do is to improve schools in the U.S. and give students options. Some of the changes I would do to the schools in the U.S.
- Direct more focus on learning and less on homework. Many students use very little time to actually learn the material, but focus only on doing the homework. Just make homework count less and tests more, and make tests harder.
- Let students compete against each other to get into high school, and allow them free choice of schools, maybe even in the whole U.S. as long they can show that they are able to attend the school.
- Destroy the teacher unions, because unions prevent bad teachers for getting fired and they are pretty much against every single good proposal. Why shouldn't good teachers get a better pay than bad teachers?

This would improve the U.S. education system considerably. U.S. would do a lot better in the PISA survey and I also believe income differences would be smaller, because student from poor districts can now compete their way up to good schools around in the U.S instead of attending some horrible ghetto school.
 
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jamesrage said:
Should home-schooling be illegal? Yes no or maybe/other?







Home-schoolers win asylum in U.S. - Washington Times

A U.S. immigration judge's decision to grant political asylum to a German family with "a well-founded fear of persecution" for home-schooling their children should send a powerful message to the German government to change its stance on home schooling, the family's attorney said Wednesday.

"Home-schoolers are not a threat to German society," said Michael Donnelly, one of the Home School Legal Defense Association's team of lawyers representing Uwe Romeike; his wife, Hannelore; and their five children.

Home schooling in Germany is illegal in most cases, and violators can be fined, jailed and even lose custody of their children. Mr. Donnelly said the German government has decided home-schoolers are "trying to create a parallel society" that must be "stamped out."

The Romeikes home-schooled their children in Germany and received fines totaling $10,000. On one occasion, Mr. Donnelly said, police hauled their children off to school. In 2006, the Romeikes emigrated to Tennessee and continued home schooling their children. Mr. Donnelly said the family applied for political asylum within three months of arriving in the U.S.

Immigration Judge Lawrence O. Burman in Tennessee granted asylum to the Romeikes during a conference-call hearing Tuesday, as is typical in immigration cases. A written ruling is expected to follow, but was not available Wednesday evening.
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Homeschooling definitely shouldn't be illegal. Not all homeschoolers are brainwashed religious cult wackos.

However teaching your kid fairy tales and Christian cult propaganda in a "science" course and having it counted as a "science credit" should definitely be illegal. The same goes with socially isolating your children. I think this should be considered child abuse and worthy of prosecution and/or losing your kids.

I also think that homeschool should be more strictly regulated and require parents to have credentials and experience in education. Homeschooling for "religious reasons" should be illegal.

But homeschooling in general? Nope. What about parents of, say, mentally disabled children who can't function in a normal school environment? I think that would definitely be a good reason.

Homeschool gets an unfairly bad rap because it's been bastardized by fundie cultists to the point that people automatically assume that all homeschooled kids are brainwashed fundie cultists. That's not true.
 
Toothpicvic said:
Homeschooling definitely shouldn't be illegal. Not all homeschoolers are brainwashed religious cult wackos.

However teaching your kid fairy tales and Christian cult propaganda in a "science" course and having it counted as a "science credit" should definitely be illegal. The same goes with socially isolating your children. I think this should be considered child abuse and worthy of prosecution and/or losing your kids.

I also think that homeschool should be more strictly regulated and require parents to have credentials and experience in education. Homeschooling for "religious reasons" should be illegal.

But homeschooling in general? Nope. What about parents of, say, mentally disabled children who can't function in a normal school environment? I think that would definitely be a good reason.

Homeschool gets an unfairly bad rap because it's been bastardized by fundie cultists to the point that people automatically assume that all homeschooled kids are brainwashed fundie cultists. That's not true.
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Fascism is alive and well and living in the US. Yea!

Freedom for everyone except the religious! A wonderful dream for America!
 
Blackdog said:
Fascism is alive and well and living in the US. Yea!
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Hell yeah. Poor kids get brainwashed by wacko religious cultists everyday, just like the Hitler Youth kids did. Yet that kind of abuse and (dis)education gets a free pass under the guise of "freedom of religion".

BTW,

not-persecuted.jpg
 
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