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Thread: Congressional term limits

  1. #91
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    Re: Congressional term limits

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I can change your vote.
    Please do.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Good points. The process of how politicians are elected is the problem.
    Thank you.
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  2. #92
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    Re: Congressional term limits

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    We have a policy to get rid of people that are perceived as bad. It's called elections.
    Yes, and incumbents have unfair advantages in them.

    Do you deny - as I said in the post you were responding to - that Congress generally has a very low approval rating?


    This is less about "bad" people vs. "good" people and more about legislative process.
    Did you read the post? I don't see how you could say it isn't about "good" and "bad" people if you had. I have yet to hear a single good argument against the point I made there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    And we have a winner! If people cannot be trusted to vote out bad politicians, then how can we trust them to vote in good ones?
    It's not a matter of not trusting people. I trust people in general more than almost everyone else here. It's about unfair advantages such as:
    -Votes for incumbents being votes for giving your district more power; votes against incumbents being votes for giving your district less power (this is probably the most important one)
    -Enormous fund raising and name recognition advantage for the incumbent (especially in primaries, which is part of the next point)
    -Partisanship. People are usually unwilling to vote against their preferred party, and people may also be unwilling to vote an incumbent out in a primary for fear that this gives their party less of a chance of keeping the seat.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Though I agree with what some of said... I generally don't trust the average voter to make good informed decisions
    And I do. I hate being labeled as some kind of elitist for supporting term limits when in fact I am probably one of the most anti-elitist people on the forum, moreso than most people who are against term limits. I just think that term limits are logical, given everything I've already said.
    Last edited by Dav; 01-28-10 at 08:47 PM.

  3. #93
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    Re: Congressional term limits

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Yes, and incumbents have unfair advantages in them.

    Do you deny - as I said in the post you were responding to - that Congress generally has a very low approval rating?
    If Congress has a low approval rating, what's the advantage of being an incumbent?

    It's not a matter of not trusting people. I trust people in general more than almost everyone else here. It's about unfair advantages such as:
    -Votes for incumbents being votes for giving your district more power; votes against incumbents being votes for giving your district less power (this is probably the most important one)
    -Enormous fund raising and name recognition advantage for the incumbent (especially in primaries, which is part of the next point)
    -Partisanship. People are usually unwilling to vote against their preferred party, and people may also be unwilling to vote an incumbent out in a primary for fear that this gives their party less of a chance of keeping the seat.
    But yes, it is about not trusting the voters, because the bottom line is the VOTERS CHOOSE. They are the ones making a free choice based on all these things. Apparently voters LIKE incumbents, and people who have more name recognition, and spend more money on ads and all that. Who are you to tell them they can't vote the way they do?

    You're a sore loser. You hate that the voters are choosing people you don't think they ought to choose. But no matter what the reason for their choices, it is still their choice. Period.

    And I do. I hate being labeled as some kind of elitist for supporting term limits when in fact I am probably one of the most anti-elitist people on the forum, moreso than most people who are against term limits. I just think that term limits are logical, given everything I've already said.
    You are totally elitist. You think you know better than the voters who should be elected. You want to limit their choices.

  4. #94
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    Re: Congressional term limits

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    And we have a winner! If people cannot be trusted to vote out bad politicians, then how can we trust them to vote in good ones?
    Because most politicians start out good (or at least well-intentioned) and become bad over time. I think the vast majority of people who seek public office do so because of a genuine desire to help improve the country, and eventually become corrupted/incompetent/out-of-touch as they settle into the way things are done in Washington.

    Term limits would create a lot more job turnover, so people wouldn't be there long enough for that to happen.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 01-28-10 at 08:57 PM.
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    Re: Congressional term limits

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Though I agree with what some of said... I generally don't trust the average voter to make good informed decisions, until there is something better, this is the appropriate policy. Remember, if voters are stupid, term limits aren't going to stop them from voting stupid people in office.
    They'll prevent them from voting the SAME stupid person into office repeatedly, which will at least make it more likely that they'll get a smart person occasionally.
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  6. #96
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    Re: Congressional term limits

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    You're a sore loser.
    You are totally elitist.
    It's bad enough that you ignored all of my points, but throwing insults is rarely an effective debate tactic.

  7. #97
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    Re: Congressional term limits

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Because most politicians start out good (or at least well-intentioned) and become bad over time.
    Yet a majority of voters elect them. Apparently they think otherwise. Who are you to override their decision?

  8. #98
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    Re: Congressional term limits

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Because most politicians start out good (or at least well-intentioned) and become bad over time. I think the vast majority of people who seek public office do so because of a genuine desire to help improve the country, and eventually become corrupted/incompetent/out-of-touch as they settle into the way things are done in Washington.

    Term limits would create a lot more job turnover, so people wouldn't be there long enough for that to happen.
    You have some evidence of this? I think this is a popular view, but I don't know that it is true.
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  9. #99
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    Re: Congressional term limits

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    If Congress has a low approval rating, what's the advantage of being an incumbent?
    Because no one ever thinks THEIR congressman is part of the problem. It's the 434 other guys, and the stupid voters from those other districts.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman
    But yes, it is about not trusting the voters, because the bottom line is the VOTERS CHOOSE. They are the ones making a free choice based on all these things. Apparently voters LIKE incumbents, and people who have more name recognition,
    That doesn't make any sense. You're saying they vote for people with more name recognition because they like people with more name recognition, and not because they, umm, recognize their name?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman
    and spend more money on ads and all that. Who are you to tell them they can't vote the way they do?
    They would still be free to vote for a politician with identical political views. Hell, if they really loved Incumbency Bob that much, there would be nothing stopping them from voting for someone who campaigned on a promise to let Incumbency Bob make all of the decisions for him. But I doubt that would ever happen, because voters don't actually VALUE incumbency very much...they just KNOW the incumbent better.
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  10. #100
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    Re: Congressional term limits

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    It's bad enough that you ignored all of my points, but throwing insults is rarely an effective debate tactic.
    I addressed your points head-on. I didn't consider either of these insults at all, but if you did, I apologize and withdraw them. Please respond to the rest of my post.

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