View Poll Results: Which scenario do you feel is fine legally

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  • #1

    0 0%
  • #2

    1 3.57%
  • #3

    4 14.29%
  • #4

    3 10.71%
  • #5

    1 3.57%
  • #6

    0 0%
  • None

    22 78.57%
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Thread: Should foreigns have the following protections

  1. #1
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    Should foreigns have the following protections

    1. If a gentleman from England comes into this country and is on a long term visit and writes a negative letter to the editor piece about Barak Obama, do you think it should be okay for the government to throw him in jail for his negative speech against the POTUS?

    2. If a gentleman from Canada comes into America on vacation and openly is talking about his worship of the Devil as a Satanist, should he be arrested and put in a mental institute for his following of a crazy evil religion?

    3. If a group of Chinese people assembled in front of the Empire State Building taking numerous pictures would it be fine to forcefully get them to disperse and arrest any that wouldn't.

    4. If a gentleman from the netherlands is here and ends up getting pulled over for going 3 over the speed limit should he be subject to a full body cavity search, his entire car searched, and numerous items siezed to give them a more thurough investigation if the police officer wishes?

    5. If an individual from Russia is thought of as a suspect for a crime and is poor at speaking english do you believe its fine for the cops to get him in an interrogation room and tell him if he confesses and said he did it he'll get out within a day and back home?

    6. If a gentleman from Dubai is suspected of robbery is it okay to throw him in jail without a trial?

    Just wanting to check on some of these, as it appears numreous people on this forum have repeatedly stated that the constitution should not apply to foreign individuals. As such the right to freedom of speech, religion, assembly, search and siezure, fair trial, etc should in no way apply to ANY foreigners, correct?

    So, which of these scenarios do you feel is perfectly acceptable legally?

  2. #2
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    Re: Should foreigns have the following protections

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    1. If a gentleman from England comes into this country and is on a long term visit and writes a negative letter to the editor piece about Barak Obama, do you think it should be okay for the government to throw him in jail for his negative speech against the POTUS?

    2. If a gentleman from Canada comes into America on vacation and openly is talking about his worship of the Devil as a Satanist, should he be arrested and put in a mental institute for his following of a crazy evil religion?

    3. If a group of Chinese people assembled in front of the Empire State Building taking numerous pictures would it be fine to forcefully get them to disperse and arrest any that wouldn't.

    4. If a gentleman from the netherlands is here and ends up getting pulled over for going 3 over the speed limit should he be subject to a full body cavity search, his entire car searched, and numerous items siezed to give them a more thurough investigation if the police officer wishes?

    5. If an individual from Russia is thought of as a suspect for a crime and is poor at speaking english do you believe its fine for the cops to get him in an interrogation room and tell him if he confesses and said he did it he'll get out within a day and back home?

    6. If a gentleman from Dubai is suspected of robbery is it okay to throw him in jail without a trial?

    Just wanting to check on some of these, as it appears numreous people on this forum have repeatedly stated that the constitution should not apply to foreign individuals. As such the right to freedom of speech, religion, assembly, search and siezure, fair trial, etc should in no way apply to ANY foreigners, correct?

    So, which of these scenarios do you feel is perfectly acceptable legally?
    None of them, obviously.
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  3. #3
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    Re: Should foreigns have the following protections

    I don't answer loaded polls, but I'm not quite sure what parallel you're trying to draw here. The Christmas bomber?

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    Re: Should foreigns have the following protections

    Just a generalized thing. Conversations from the NCIS investigation at Gitmo, Christmas Bomber and long before that have had individuals saying foreigners don't get constitutional rights.

    If that's the case, if they are REALLY meaning foreigners and not just "people [b]who we believe[b] are terrorists" don't get constitutional rights then it should be applying to all foreigners right?

    There isn't an either or? SOME foreigners have constitutional protections and others don't?

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    Re: Should foreigns have the following protections

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    1. If a gentleman from England comes into this country and is on a long term visit and writes a negative letter to the editor piece about Barak Obama, do you think it should be okay for the government to throw him in jail for his negative speech against the POTUS?

    2. If a gentleman from Canada comes into America on vacation and openly is talking about his worship of the Devil as a Satanist, should he be arrested and put in a mental institute for his following of a crazy evil religion?

    3. If a group of Chinese people assembled in front of the Empire State Building taking numerous pictures would it be fine to forcefully get them to disperse and arrest any that wouldn't.

    4. If a gentleman from the netherlands is here and ends up getting pulled over for going 3 over the speed limit should he be subject to a full body cavity search, his entire car searched, and numerous items siezed to give them a more thurough investigation if the police officer wishes?

    5. If an individual from Russia is thought of as a suspect for a crime and is poor at speaking english do you believe its fine for the cops to get him in an interrogation room and tell him if he confesses and said he did it he'll get out within a day and back home?

    6. If a gentleman from Dubai is suspected of robbery is it okay to throw him in jail without a trial?

    Just wanting to check on some of these, as it appears numreous people on this forum have repeatedly stated that the constitution should not apply to foreign individuals. As such the right to freedom of speech, religion, assembly, search and siezure, fair trial, etc should in no way apply to ANY foreigners, correct?

    So, which of these scenarios do you feel is perfectly acceptable legally?
    none, imo.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  6. #6
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    Re: Should foreigns have the following protections

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Just a generalized thing. Conversations from the NCIS investigation at Gitmo, Christmas Bomber and long before that have had individuals saying foreigners don't get constitutional rights.

    If that's the case, if they are REALLY meaning foreigners and not just "people [b]who we believe[b] are terrorists" don't get constitutional rights then it should be applying to all foreigners right?

    There isn't an either or? SOME foreigners have constitutional protections and others don't?
    I can't believe it's even controversial that someone in the United States who has broken American laws should be entitled to a fair trial.
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    Re: Should foreigns have the following protections

    I can believe it, I just want to see some consistancy.

    You can't go "Grr, he's a terrorist bastard and foreign, foreigners don't get rights, no trial"

    and then turn around and go "Eh, that Canadian guy accused of robbing a store seems to be falsely accused, he should be having a fair trial"

    You can't tell me SOME foreigners are protected under the constitution and some aren't. And you can't tell me a foreign EXACTLY like any other save for the fact he attempted terror is any different either. That'd be like saying "Yeah, sure, I mean, the guys a U.S. citizen but he KILLED someone. The constitution doesn't protect people who KILL people".

    Now I actually don't have a problem with the "enemy combatants" or "prisoner of war" type thing and military tribunals and the such. My issue though is when people ignorantly try to start using the justification "Man, the constitution doesn't apply to foreigners" that I have an issue with because its usually rooted in ignorant or bigotry without realization for the wide reaching affect such an ideal would cause

  8. #8
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    Re: Should foreigns have the following protections

    There's a certain frisson when you have to choose the "Aliens" channel at the airport, swiftly followed by the crash back to reality with the wait to be processed by a grumpy irritable minimum wage jobsworth.
    Don't work out, work in.

    Never eat anything that's served in a bucket.

  9. #9
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    Re: Should foreigns have the following protections

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    1. do you think it should be okay for the government to throw him in jail for his negative speech against the POTUS?
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    2. If a gentleman from Canada comes into America on vacation and openly is talking about his worship of the Devil as a Satanist, should he be arrested and put in a mental institute for his following of a crazy evil religion?
    Not so long as he's restricting himself to talking. When he starts lighting fires and sacrificing virgins is when the line is drawn. There's a global virgin shortage, after all.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    3. If a group of Chinese people assembled in front of the Empire State Building taking numerous pictures would it be fine to forcefully get them to disperse and arrest any that wouldn't.
    Depends.

    Are they interfering significantly with access to the building or passersby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    4. If a gentleman from the netherlands is here and ends up getting pulled over for going 3 over the speed limit should he be subject to a full body cavity search, his entire car searched, and numerous items siezed to give them a more thurough investigation if the police officer wishes?
    Why should he be treated differently than us?



    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    5. If an individual from Russia is thought of as a suspect for a crime and is poor at speaking english do you believe its fine for the cops to get him in an interrogation room and tell him if he confesses and said he did it he'll get out within a day and back home?
    If he's a Russian citizen, he's allowed counsel from the embassy.

    Otherwise I believe the courts throw out such "confession" routinely, anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    6. If a gentleman from Dubai is suspected of robbery is it okay to throw him in jail without a trial?
    No.

  10. #10
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    Re: Should foreigns have the following protections

    I picked #3, because they could do the same to Americans depending on the circumstances.

    Basically, citizens and foreigners alike deserve equal protection under the laws, unless the president uses his CiC powers to declare someone an enemy combatant.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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