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Should foreigns have the following protections

Which scenario do you feel is fine legally

  • Total voters
    23
Zyphlin

Zyphlin

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1. If a gentleman from England comes into this country and is on a long term visit and writes a negative letter to the editor piece about Barak Obama, do you think it should be okay for the government to throw him in jail for his negative speech against the POTUS?

2. If a gentleman from Canada comes into America on vacation and openly is talking about his worship of the Devil as a Satanist, should he be arrested and put in a mental institute for his following of a crazy evil religion?

3. If a group of Chinese people assembled in front of the Empire State Building taking numerous pictures would it be fine to forcefully get them to disperse and arrest any that wouldn't.

4. If a gentleman from the netherlands is here and ends up getting pulled over for going 3 over the speed limit should he be subject to a full body cavity search, his entire car searched, and numerous items siezed to give them a more thurough investigation if the police officer wishes?

5. If an individual from Russia is thought of as a suspect for a crime and is poor at speaking english do you believe its fine for the cops to get him in an interrogation room and tell him if he confesses and said he did it he'll get out within a day and back home?

6. If a gentleman from Dubai is suspected of robbery is it okay to throw him in jail without a trial?

Just wanting to check on some of these, as it appears numreous people on this forum have repeatedly stated that the constitution should not apply to foreign individuals. As such the right to freedom of speech, religion, assembly, search and siezure, fair trial, etc should in no way apply to ANY foreigners, correct?

So, which of these scenarios do you feel is perfectly acceptable legally?
 
Zyphlin said:
1. If a gentleman from England comes into this country and is on a long term visit and writes a negative letter to the editor piece about Barak Obama, do you think it should be okay for the government to throw him in jail for his negative speech against the POTUS?

2. If a gentleman from Canada comes into America on vacation and openly is talking about his worship of the Devil as a Satanist, should he be arrested and put in a mental institute for his following of a crazy evil religion?

3. If a group of Chinese people assembled in front of the Empire State Building taking numerous pictures would it be fine to forcefully get them to disperse and arrest any that wouldn't.

4. If a gentleman from the netherlands is here and ends up getting pulled over for going 3 over the speed limit should he be subject to a full body cavity search, his entire car searched, and numerous items siezed to give them a more thurough investigation if the police officer wishes?

5. If an individual from Russia is thought of as a suspect for a crime and is poor at speaking english do you believe its fine for the cops to get him in an interrogation room and tell him if he confesses and said he did it he'll get out within a day and back home?

6. If a gentleman from Dubai is suspected of robbery is it okay to throw him in jail without a trial?

Just wanting to check on some of these, as it appears numreous people on this forum have repeatedly stated that the constitution should not apply to foreign individuals. As such the right to freedom of speech, religion, assembly, search and siezure, fair trial, etc should in no way apply to ANY foreigners, correct?

So, which of these scenarios do you feel is perfectly acceptable legally?
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None of them, obviously.
 
I don't answer loaded polls, but I'm not quite sure what parallel you're trying to draw here. The Christmas bomber?
 
Just a generalized thing. Conversations from the NCIS investigation at Gitmo, Christmas Bomber and long before that have had individuals saying foreigners don't get constitutional rights.

If that's the case, if they are REALLY meaning foreigners and not just "people who we believe are terrorists" don't get constitutional rights then it should be applying to all foreigners right?

There isn't an either or? SOME foreigners have constitutional protections and others don't?
 
Zyphlin said:
1. If a gentleman from England comes into this country and is on a long term visit and writes a negative letter to the editor piece about Barak Obama, do you think it should be okay for the government to throw him in jail for his negative speech against the POTUS?

2. If a gentleman from Canada comes into America on vacation and openly is talking about his worship of the Devil as a Satanist, should he be arrested and put in a mental institute for his following of a crazy evil religion?

3. If a group of Chinese people assembled in front of the Empire State Building taking numerous pictures would it be fine to forcefully get them to disperse and arrest any that wouldn't.

4. If a gentleman from the netherlands is here and ends up getting pulled over for going 3 over the speed limit should he be subject to a full body cavity search, his entire car searched, and numerous items siezed to give them a more thurough investigation if the police officer wishes?

5. If an individual from Russia is thought of as a suspect for a crime and is poor at speaking english do you believe its fine for the cops to get him in an interrogation room and tell him if he confesses and said he did it he'll get out within a day and back home?

6. If a gentleman from Dubai is suspected of robbery is it okay to throw him in jail without a trial?

Just wanting to check on some of these, as it appears numreous people on this forum have repeatedly stated that the constitution should not apply to foreign individuals. As such the right to freedom of speech, religion, assembly, search and siezure, fair trial, etc should in no way apply to ANY foreigners, correct?

So, which of these scenarios do you feel is perfectly acceptable legally?
Click to expand...
none, imo.
 
Zyphlin said:
Just a generalized thing. Conversations from the NCIS investigation at Gitmo, Christmas Bomber and long before that have had individuals saying foreigners don't get constitutional rights.

If that's the case, if they are REALLY meaning foreigners and not just "people who we believe are terrorists" don't get constitutional rights then it should be applying to all foreigners right?

There isn't an either or? SOME foreigners have constitutional protections and others don't?
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I can't believe it's even controversial that someone in the United States who has broken American laws should be entitled to a fair trial.
 
I can believe it, I just want to see some consistancy.

You can't go "Grr, he's a terrorist bastard and foreign, foreigners don't get rights, no trial"

and then turn around and go "Eh, that Canadian guy accused of robbing a store seems to be falsely accused, he should be having a fair trial"

You can't tell me SOME foreigners are protected under the constitution and some aren't. And you can't tell me a foreign EXACTLY like any other save for the fact he attempted terror is any different either. That'd be like saying "Yeah, sure, I mean, the guys a U.S. citizen but he KILLED someone. The constitution doesn't protect people who KILL people".

Now I actually don't have a problem with the "enemy combatants" or "prisoner of war" type thing and military tribunals and the such. My issue though is when people ignorantly try to start using the justification "Man, the constitution doesn't apply to foreigners" that I have an issue with because its usually rooted in ignorant or bigotry without realization for the wide reaching affect such an ideal would cause
 
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There's a certain frisson when you have to choose the "Aliens" channel at the airport, swiftly followed by the crash back to reality with the wait to be processed by a grumpy irritable minimum wage jobsworth. :shock:
 
Zyphlin said:
1. do you think it should be okay for the government to throw him in jail for his negative speech against the POTUS?
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No.

Zyphlin said:
2. If a gentleman from Canada comes into America on vacation and openly is talking about his worship of the Devil as a Satanist, should he be arrested and put in a mental institute for his following of a crazy evil religion?
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Not so long as he's restricting himself to talking. When he starts lighting fires and sacrificing virgins is when the line is drawn. There's a global virgin shortage, after all.


Zyphlin said:
3. If a group of Chinese people assembled in front of the Empire State Building taking numerous pictures would it be fine to forcefully get them to disperse and arrest any that wouldn't.
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Depends.

Are they interfering significantly with access to the building or passersby?

Zyphlin said:
4. If a gentleman from the netherlands is here and ends up getting pulled over for going 3 over the speed limit should he be subject to a full body cavity search, his entire car searched, and numerous items siezed to give them a more thurough investigation if the police officer wishes?
Click to expand...

Why should he be treated differently than us?



Zyphlin said:
5. If an individual from Russia is thought of as a suspect for a crime and is poor at speaking english do you believe its fine for the cops to get him in an interrogation room and tell him if he confesses and said he did it he'll get out within a day and back home?
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If he's a Russian citizen, he's allowed counsel from the embassy.

Otherwise I believe the courts throw out such "confession" routinely, anyway.

Zyphlin said:
6. If a gentleman from Dubai is suspected of robbery is it okay to throw him in jail without a trial?
Click to expand...

No.
 
I picked #3, because they could do the same to Americans depending on the circumstances.

Basically, citizens and foreigners alike deserve equal protection under the laws, unless the president uses his CiC powers to declare someone an enemy combatant.
 
Then please explain how if you're actually doing anything more than trolling this thread.
 
Zyphlin said:
3. If a group of Chinese people assembled in front of the Empire State Building taking numerous pictures would it be fine to forcefully get them to disperse and arrest any that wouldn't.

5. If an individual from Russia is thought of as a suspect for a crime and is poor at speaking english do you believe its fine for the cops to get him in an interrogation room and tell him if he confesses and said he did it he'll get out within a day and back home?

So, which of these scenarios do you feel is perfectly acceptable legally?
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As far as I know, these two would be legal. Freedom of assembly often requires a permit, the police have the right to break up a crowd when necessary. And as far as I know the police have the right to detain someone for questioning, though you didn't specify whether or not Miranda rights were conveyed. And the police are allowed to lie to you.
 
Tsunami said:
And as far as I know the police have the right to detain someone for questioning, though you didn't specify whether or not Miranda rights were conveyed. And the police are allowed to lie to you.
Click to expand...

They are allowed to lie about certain things...mostly factual things (e.g. your buddy already confessed and ratted you out), not the law itself. Lying to a foreigner who knows little about our language or legal system in an effort to elicit a false confession would almost certainly not be legal.
 
Kandahar said:
They are allowed to lie about certain things...mostly factual things (e.g. your buddy already confessed and ratted you out), not the law itself. Lying to a foreigner who knows little about our language or legal system in an effort to elicit a false confession would almost certainly not be legal.
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Why does the quality of being a foreigner visiting the USA equal lack of knowledge of our legal system?

After all, I lack knowledge of our (the USA's) legal system and in some cases, specific words of our language, while at the same time being a natural-born citizen of the USA.

And I'm actually apparently above average in IQ.:shock: If that means anything.
 
The Mark said:
Why does the quality of being a foreigner visiting the USA equal lack of knowledge of our legal system?
Click to expand...

Foreigners are entitled to consult with their embassy or consulate, which can tell them about American law.

The Mark said:
After all, I lack knowledge of our (the USA's) legal system
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It wouldn't be legal for the police to falsely tell YOU that if you confess, you'll be released within a day either. That's just preying upon those who are not well-acquainted with the American legal system and is an abuse of power.
 
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Kandahar said:
Foreigners are entitled to consult with their embassy or consulate, which can tell them about American law.
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Ok.
Kandahar said:
It wouldn't be legal for the police to falsely tell YOU that if you confess, you'll be released within a day either. That's just preying upon those who are not well-acquainted with the American legal system and is an abuse of power.
Click to expand...

Are you sure of this?

I am under the impression that you may be incorrect.
 
My answer would be "No" to all of those. If a person is in the US and they commit a crime the situation should be handled under the laws of the US. And since under the law we're all "supposed" to be equals...
 
Zyphlin said:
1. If a gentleman from England comes into this country and is on a long term visit and writes a negative letter to the editor piece about Barak Obama, do you think it should be okay for the government to throw him in jail for his negative speech against the POTUS?

2. If a gentleman from Canada comes into America on vacation and openly is talking about his worship of the Devil as a Satanist, should he be arrested and put in a mental institute for his following of a crazy evil religion?

3. If a group of Chinese people assembled in front of the Empire State Building taking numerous pictures would it be fine to forcefully get them to disperse and arrest any that wouldn't.

4. If a gentleman from the netherlands is here and ends up getting pulled over for going 3 over the speed limit should he be subject to a full body cavity search, his entire car searched, and numerous items siezed to give them a more thurough investigation if the police officer wishes?

5. If an individual from Russia is thought of as a suspect for a crime and is poor at speaking english do you believe its fine for the cops to get him in an interrogation room and tell him if he confesses and said he did it he'll get out within a day and back home?

6. If a gentleman from Dubai is suspected of robbery is it okay to throw him in jail without a trial?

Just wanting to check on some of these, as it appears numreous people on this forum have repeatedly stated that the constitution should not apply to foreign individuals. As such the right to freedom of speech, religion, assembly, search and siezure, fair trial, etc should in no way apply to ANY foreigners, correct?

So, which of these scenarios do you feel is perfectly acceptable legally?
Click to expand...

Since I do not believe that the constitution applies to foreigners I say the government can do any of those things especially if they are illegal aliens(illegal aliens can not purchase firearms under the Firearm Owners' Protection Act of 1986). So the government can dictate which constitutional rights foreigners get,especially if they are here illegally. If the government wanted to make a law that says non-citizens can not protest then it is free to do so.
 
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jamesrage said:
Since I do not believe that the constitution applies to foreigners I say the government can do any of those things especially if they are illegal aliens(illegal aliens can not purchase firearms under the Firearm Owners' Protection Act of 1986). So the government can dictate which constitutional rights foreigners get,especially if they are here illegally. If the government wanted to make a law that says non-citizens can not protest then it is free to do so.
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So you'd be willing to completely kill the American tourism industry? A multi-Billion Dollar industry. Because who in the hell would come here if we could do what you propose?
 
I'm probably in the minority here---but American Laws, should apply to American citizens. Others should act like well mannered House guests, or load up their "I love NY T-shirts", and ease on back home.
 
Winnb said:
So you'd be willing to completely kill the American tourism industry?
Click to expand...



So you would be cool letting someone on a visa or even someone here illegally get a firearm? Surely if you think constitutional rights apply to anyone in this country then you must think they should get all constitutional rights.

If we want to include constitutional rights to guest and trespassers in our country then we should make an Amendment to the constitutional.

A multi-Billion Dollar industry. Because who in the hell would come here if we could do what you propose?
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If they act like well mannered guest then there will not be a problem.
 
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Skateguy said:
I'm probably in the minority here---but American Laws, should apply to American citizens. Others should act like well mannered House guests, or load up their "I love NY T-shirts", and ease on back home.
Click to expand...

Some laws do apply only to American citizens, such as the right to vote. Other laws are considered fundamental to free will and are thus beyond our scope of law.
 
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