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The Wars On Terror

Are the ways in which we are conducting our wars today constitutional?

  • Total voters
    25
Goobieman said:
You mean Article I sec 8.

Your position is flawed in that it is not necessary for Congress to declare war for a state of war to exist, nor for the Presient to exercise his Article II powers of the Commander in Chief.
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Porchev said:
The Congress is still involved, but the Congress chooses to authorize "the use of force", instead of calling it "war", so since they are still part of the process and also decide if "use of force" operations are continued to be funded, then why is there a problem?

Even during the widely popular Gulf War in 1991 (which we won), Congress authorized force and didn't call it a war.
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Excuse me but aren't we still in iraq 19 years later?
 
LiberalAvenger said:
Excuse me but aren't we still in iraq 19 years later?
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The Gulf War in 1991 (also known as Operation Desert Storm) that I am referring to was an overwhelming success--we kicked Iraq out of Kuwait. Although that is not the subject of this thread, the point is Congress was directly involved with that "war" and all the others.
 
LiberalAvenger said:
No I am completely correct. Only congress has the power to declare war. They can not bestow this power to another branch because it would be against the separation of powers.
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Yes... and none of this negates what I said.

-A state of war CAN exit w/o a declaration by Congress.
If another state declares war on us, or another country makes war on us, with or without a declaration of war on their part, then regardless of what Congress does, a state of war exixts.

-The President does not need a declaration of war before he can extercise his powers of the CinC.
There is absolutely NO constitutional limitation on the powers of the CinC, especially not one that -requires- that congress to declare war before said powers come into force.

And thus, while you are coorrect in that only Congress can decare war, this doe snto create the limitations you think it does.

Any laws contrary to article II section 8 are unconstitutional
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Artilcle II Sec 8 doesnt exist. You, again, mean Article -I- sec 8.
But, I agree -- the war powers act is Unconstitutional.
 
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Abraham Lincoln used his war powers to declare the emancipation proclamation and free the slaves.

Roosevelt used his powers to intern japanese civilians in concentration camps during the WWII.

If we are under a truly legal declaration of war don't you think he would be using more of his supposed wartime powers?

BTW the cinc is a civilian.

The neo- cons would never allow the war powers act to be challenged in their supreme court.
 
LiberalAvenger said:
Abraham Lincoln used his war powers to declare the emancipation proclamation and free the slaves.

Roosevelt used his powers to intern japanese civilians in concentration camps during the WWII.

If we are under a truly legal declaration of war don't you think he would be using more of his supposed wartime powers?

BTW the cinc is a civilian.

The neo- cons would never allow the war powers act to be challenged in their supreme court.
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Not sure how any of this is supposed to negate the soundness of what I said.
 
LiberalAvenger said:
What it is?:confused:
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As I said:


-A state of war CAN exit w/o a declaration by Congress.
If another state declares war on us, or another country makes war on us, with or without a declaration of war on their part, then regardless of what Congress does, a state of war exixts.

-The President does not need a declaration of war before he can extercise his powers of the CinC.
There is absolutely NO constitutional limitation on the powers of the CinC, especially not one that -requires- that congress to declare war before said powers come into force.

And thus, while you are coorrect in that only Congress can decare war, this does not create the limitations you think it does.


Your last response does nothing to counter any of this.
 
Goobieman said:
As I said:


-A state of war CAN exit w/o a declaration by Congress.
If another state declares war on us, or another country makes war on us, with or without a declaration of war on their part, then regardless of what Congress does, a state of war exixts.

-The President does not need a declaration of war before he can extercise his powers of the CinC.
There is absolutely NO constitutional limitation on the powers of the CinC, especially not one that -requires- that congress to declare war before said powers come into force.

And thus, while you are coorrect in that only Congress can decare war, this does not create the limitations you think it does.


Your last response does nothing to counter any of this.
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On what basis do you offer your assertions?


"Article II


Section 2 - Civilian Power over Military, Cabinet, Pardon Power, Appointments

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States..."

I read this to mean that "civilian power over military".

I still say that only congress can declare war.

Or, are we playing semantics such as what is the definition of"
"war"?

Are we talking semantics here?
 
LiberalAvenger said:
On what basis do you offer your assertions?
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The US Constitution, and logic.

"Article II Section 2 -
The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States..."
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I read this to mean that "civilian power over military".
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And? Nothing here states that his powers as CinC are limited to a declared war. There is -no- Constitutional restriction on what the CinC can do with his power as the CinC.

I still say that only congress can declare war.
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And I agreed with you -- but that doesnt change the fact that a state of war can exist w/o such a declaration, and the the President, as CinC is not limited in his power by the presence of absence of such adeclaration.
 
Goobieman said:
The US Constitution, and logic.


And? Nothing here states that his powers as CinC are limited to a declared war. There is -no- Constitutional restriction on what the CinC can do with his power as the CinC.


And I agreed with you -- but that doesnt change the fact that a state of war can exist w/o such a declaration, and the the President, as CinC is not limited in his power by the presence of absence of such adeclaration.
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In essence you are implying that the president has more power than hitler had.

None of the framers of the constitution wanted the president to have such an unlimited power.

Or, maybe you can cite some references on some framers who wanted the president to be a war president.
 
LiberalAvenger said:
In essence you are implying that the president has more power than hitler had.

None of the framers of the constitution wanted the president to have such an unlimited power.
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Please cite for me the constitutionally specified limititations on the powers of the CinC.

You seem to be stuck on the idea that the only time war can be made is when Congress declares that a state of war exists. This is -exactly- the situation the people that wrote the Constitution were trying to avoid, as the defense of the nation requires the ability to act faster than Congress can deliberate. That was true back then -- imagine the need today.
 
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