View Poll Results: Are the ways in which we are conducting our wars today constitutional?

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  • Yes

    11 42.31%
  • No

    12 46.15%
  • The nfl play off are constitutional

    3 11.54%
  • What war?

    3 11.54%
  • I am with stupid

    3 11.54%
  • I don't know

    7 26.92%
  • I don't care just so we kill them all

    4 15.38%
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Thread: The Wars On Terror

  1. #21
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: The Wars On Terror

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    Article 2, Section 8 says that only congress has the power to declare war. They can not delegate their power to the president. This would be against the seperation of powers doctrine in constitutional law.

    The ways in which the wars are being conducted are not enumerated in the constitution at all.
    You mean Article I sec 8.

    Your position is flawed in that it is not necessary for Congress to declare war for a state of war to exist, nor for the Presient to exercise his Article II powers of the Commander in Chief.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 02-19-10 at 02:52 PM.

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    Re: The Wars On Terror

    Quote Originally Posted by creativedreams View Post
    Michael Meacher who served under Tony Blair publicly stated "The U.S. war on terror is bogus. The U.S. Government played some role in the destruction wrought on 9/11"
    Not sure how these two statements are related...

  3. #23
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    Re: The Wars On Terror

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    You mean Article I sec 8.

    Your position is flawed in that it is not necessary for Congress to declare war for a state of war to exist, nor for the Presient to exercise his Article II powers of the Commander in Chief.
    No I am completely correct. Only congress has the power to declare war. They can not bestow this power to another branch because it would be against the separation of powers.

    Any laws contrary to article II section 8 are unconstitutional

  4. #24
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    Re: The Wars On Terror

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    I say no. We have not really won a war since world war II. That's because congress has not declared war since the Attack on Pearl Harbor. Korea, Viet Nam, and now Iraq and Afghanistan [not counting ronald reagan's glorious victory in granada].

    Article 2, Section 8 says that only congress has the power to declare war. They can not delegate their power to the president. This would be against the seperation of powers doctrine in constitutional law.

    The ways in which the wars are being conducted are not enumerated in the constitution at all.
    The Congress is still involved, but the Congress chooses to authorize "the use of force", instead of calling it "war", so since they are still part of the process and also decide if "use of force" operations are continued to be funded, then why is there a problem?

    Even during the widely popular Gulf War in 1991 (which we won), Congress authorized force and didn't call it a war.

  5. #25
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    Re: The Wars On Terror

    Whenever some one in Congress thinks a War is a good Idea, they should be the first to go. I bet they would make a bigger effort to work things out at the conference table then. Easy to send some one else off to fight a war you started.
    "Don't be particular bout nothin, but the company you keep"

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    Re: The Wars On Terror

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    You mean Article I sec 8.

    Your position is flawed in that it is not necessary for Congress to declare war for a state of war to exist, nor for the Presient to exercise his Article II powers of the Commander in Chief.
    Quote Originally Posted by Porchev View Post
    The Congress is still involved, but the Congress chooses to authorize "the use of force", instead of calling it "war", so since they are still part of the process and also decide if "use of force" operations are continued to be funded, then why is there a problem?

    Even during the widely popular Gulf War in 1991 (which we won), Congress authorized force and didn't call it a war.
    Excuse me but aren't we still in iraq 19 years later?

  7. #27
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    Re: The Wars On Terror

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    Excuse me but aren't we still in iraq 19 years later?
    The Gulf War in 1991 (also known as Operation Desert Storm) that I am referring to was an overwhelming success--we kicked Iraq out of Kuwait. Although that is not the subject of this thread, the point is Congress was directly involved with that "war" and all the others.

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    Re: The Wars On Terror

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    No I am completely correct. Only congress has the power to declare war. They can not bestow this power to another branch because it would be against the separation of powers.
    Yes... and none of this negates what I said.

    -A state of war CAN exit w/o a declaration by Congress.
    If another state declares war on us, or another country makes war on us, with or without a declaration of war on their part, then regardless of what Congress does, a state of war exixts.

    -The President does not need a declaration of war before he can extercise his powers of the CinC.
    There is absolutely NO constitutional limitation on the powers of the CinC, especially not one that -requires- that congress to declare war before said powers come into force.

    And thus, while you are coorrect in that only Congress can decare war, this doe snto create the limitations you think it does.

    Any laws contrary to article II section 8 are unconstitutional
    Artilcle II Sec 8 doesnt exist. You, again, mean Article -I- sec 8.
    But, I agree -- the war powers act is Unconstitutional.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 02-22-10 at 04:31 PM.

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    Re: The Wars On Terror

    Abraham Lincoln used his war powers to declare the emancipation proclamation and free the slaves.

    Roosevelt used his powers to intern japanese civilians in concentration camps during the WWII.

    If we are under a truly legal declaration of war don't you think he would be using more of his supposed wartime powers?

    BTW the cinc is a civilian.

    The neo- cons would never allow the war powers act to be challenged in their supreme court.

  10. #30
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    Re: The Wars On Terror

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    Abraham Lincoln used his war powers to declare the emancipation proclamation and free the slaves.

    Roosevelt used his powers to intern japanese civilians in concentration camps during the WWII.

    If we are under a truly legal declaration of war don't you think he would be using more of his supposed wartime powers?

    BTW the cinc is a civilian.

    The neo- cons would never allow the war powers act to be challenged in their supreme court.
    Not sure how any of this is supposed to negate the soundness of what I said.

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