View Poll Results: Should Corproations have "personhood" rights?

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  • Yes, corporations are just like a person

    18 18.18%
  • No, corporations are not just like a person

    81 81.82%
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Thread: Corporate Personhood

  1. #701
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Unions=good. Corporations=bad.
    Strange, but as I see it, both are like 2 year old children.
    Children are neither good nor bad, but they do need discipline.

    For either, this is enforced rules and regulations.
    I do not believe unions nor corporations should influence any political campaign.

  2. #702
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Hello?

    So now you're saying that the First Amendment exercise of free speech must carry "consequences"?

    Corporations, being legal constructs, can't speak for themselves.

    What they do, is they are used to hire umm....let's call them "people", or to use a John-and-Ken-ism, "spokesholes" , who then utter noises and issue printed statements and direct advertising done, at the behest of ummm...."people", who are called "stockholders" and "corporate officers", to make the positions known, and these positions, the positions of the collective will of the owners of the corporation, are called the "positions of the corporation", because it's convenient to use that language instead of repeating what I just said everytime one wants to say what a corporation's position is on an issue.

    And, unless the speech is libelous or incites riot or other forms of direct harm to others or their property, there are no "consequences" under the First Amendment.
    - Hello

    - No

    - ummm...Ok

    - Congress shall not prohibit... that being said, corporations should not be granted the rights of person under the 14th. They are not people. The people are the, ummm, let's call them "people"
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  3. #703
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Unions used to be for the worker. Today they exist as their own version of corporations. They spend millions if not billions buying politicians. And to what gain?
    Agreed. I am extremely anti-Special Interest Groups operating in the halls of government...

    Look at some of the very telling evidence from the auto industry. Or the teachers unions. heck...even the culinary unions. I truly dont think they CARE. They are so used to being able to dictate wages and benefits via work stoppages that they dont think what is best long term.
    Agreed.

    Ive seen the federal employee unions in action. They defend incompetence. Ive never seent he unions go after their own people or take a management side, regardless of how blatant the employee offense or violation. maybe others have examples of how unions have done the right thing by all parties...I dont.
    My experience as well, unions are out for themselves just as much as any other group...

    We exist as a service based economy. Thats NOT a way to build an economy...selling other peoples goods. We NEED an effective and vibrant industrial base.
    Again... agreed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  4. #704
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    - Hello
    Hi!


    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    - No
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    - ummm...Ok
    Of course

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    - Congress shall not prohibit... that being said, corporations should not be granted the rights of person under the 14th. They are not people. The people are the, ummm, let's call them "people"
    Hello?

    Since the people actually generating the ideas to be expressed are...umm...people, and since those people have the freedom to assemble, then they have the freedom to hire a spokeshole through their corporation that can do their expressing for them.

    It's not complicated, if you value human freedom and civil rights.

  5. #705
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Yes.
    You assumed I asked something and I answered. You are... what, telling me that I am stating something now that I wasn't? Is this how it is to debate you? As to the rest...

    Since the people actually generating the ideas to be expressed are...umm...people, and since those people have the freedom to assemble, then they have the freedom to hire a spokeshole through their corporation that can do their expressing for them.
    Corporations were recognized as persons for purposes of the 14th Amendment in an 1886 Supreme Court Case,
    U.S. Supreme Court - SANTA CLARA COUNTY v. SOUTHERN PAC. R. CO., 118 U.S. 394 (1886)
    Last edited by Bodhisattva; 02-08-10 at 10:17 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  6. #706
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    Investors have no control beyond moving their investments which is to say they have no input in the speech of the corporation. None. They are passive at best. They do not come together in a group for the purposes of speech.
    Most are, true.

    And how does coming together as a group have anything whatsoever to do with your ability to speak out?

    But I disagree with your "none" bit.

    Any investor, if he/she sees a company they have invested in do something they dislike, can sell their stock in that company....As you said, "moving their investments".

    It's not actually speech in the sense of vocal cords making sounds that form words and sentences...but it is a form of expressing your opinions/ideas/whatever to others. "Speech", for lack of a better word.
    Hell, if an investor so wished, he/she could start recruiting others and cause a mass sale at a single point in time, perhaps causing the company in question a small problem.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  7. #707
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    Investors have no control beyond moving their investments which is to say they have no input in the speech of the corporation. None. They are passive at best. They do not come together in a group for the purposes of speech.
    In the case of Citizens United v. FEC, that's exactly what they did. They were formed specifically to make political films.

  8. #708
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Look...I know you BELIEVE that crap and all...but most corporate execs are PRETTY business savvy...and they understand that it would be FAR more desirable to keep affordable jobs in the country. Affordable jobs translate to more consumers. Are they interested in bottom line profit? Sure...but sustainable profit is a desirable result.
    You are wrong as evidenced by history. Corporations large enough to be able to move high paying jobs or labor intensive jobs (like a call center, textiles, etc.) to low wage countries will do so because they can save labor costs while still accessing the American consumer. As fewer and fewer people make a decent wage they look for ways to maintain their lifestyle of greed through less expensive outlets, this hailed the arrival of the "Big Box" stores. After 30 years of Reaganomics we are at a point where the middle class is shrinking, the top 2% has more money than ever in our history while our poor class has gotten larger. We are getting to the point now where the majority has finally realized the damage not having manufacturing jobs has done and it's getting worse.

    The odd thing, the disconnect I don't understand is, the masses realize we made a mistake allowing all those jobs to go over seas but we don't blame the corporations for it. Instead, the corporations have successfully fooled them into thinking it was all the governments fault... They don't realize that they are one in the same.

    But I'll even give you the 50/50 responsibility...given that...do you think the unions are going to step in...negotiate lowered benefits and workable salaries to encourage the companies to bring jobs back?
    What you mean is, 'why won't unions just go away so we can pay our citizens third world wages too', forgetting however that the less people make the less they can buy.

  9. #709
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Unfortunately, not a reflection of my views.

    How about we let people speak for themselves.
    Must I really go back through the thread and find that exchange we had or will you or will you simply admit it?

  10. #710
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    Must I really go back through the thread and find that exchange we had or will you or will you simply admit it?
    You are confusing a point I made before with the one I'm making now. The one I'm making now has nothing to do with that. They are different issues. I can explain if you want. This is why you need to just let me speak for myself.

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