View Poll Results: Should Corproations have "personhood" rights?

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  • Yes, corporations are just like a person

    18 18.18%
  • No, corporations are not just like a person

    81 81.82%
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Thread: Corporate Personhood

  1. #571
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    What legal responsibilities come with freedom of speech? What exactly are you legally required to do in order to have it? If you don't live up to those responsibilities, can your freedom of speech be taken away too?
    Actually, there are all sorts of ways that speech is limited by responsibilities--you can't defame people, you can't incite to riot, you can't yell fire in a crowded theater, you can't use "fighting words." There are penalties including jail for some of these offenses.

    You can, of course, lie and distort in order to fool people, so long as you're influencing their votes rather than persuading them to buy a product. Doing more to allow this sort of thing on a grand scale seems like a bad idea.

    If corporations can convince us that we need to use a product like mouthwash (which actually causes bad breath) because without it our social lives will crumble to the dust of loneliness, I don't think I want to trust them with more influence over politics.
    Last edited by Rassales; 02-03-10 at 05:04 PM.

  2. #572
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Did it?
    Yeah, do you need me to provide the source?

    So you want to the government to decide what's biased and what's not and let it suppress messages that it thinks the voters shouldn't hear.
    Please quote where I said that. Nothing in what you quoted and then responded to has the word government nor implies it, yet you created a statement that I didn't say.

    Again, please read your own words. They should scare you.
    What's scary is that you continually interpret what I say instead of just reading what I say, it's the same problem you have with the Constitution.

  3. #573
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Yes. And they are groups, not people. So that means groups are protected by the Constitution too. So saying that corporations have no rights because they aren't people doesn't wash.
    No, it means THOSE "groups" (which aren't groups but ideas as you well noted in this very thread) are protected by the first amendment. I truly don't understand how you can continually dismiss this.

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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    Corporations aren't just groups--they are limited liability groups. Their ability to profit, to do harm, and to seek after their own best interest is unlimited, but their liability for bad actions is limited. When we offer them equal rights, we cannot also require of them equal responsibilities. That's a problem.
    Religion and the Press aren't groups either, they are ideals. "We the People" wanted those ideals protected so that the government could not destroy or control them. You are also conflating the different forms of business ownership. An LLC is not the same as being an S Corp or plainly Incorporated etc.

    But you're on the right track!

  5. #575
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    Actually, there are all sorts of ways that speech is limited by responsibilities--you can't defame people, you can't incite to riot, you can't yell fire in a crowded theater, you can't use "fighting words." There are penalties including jail for some of these offenses.
    Didn't see these coming.

    Yes, there are in some limited circumstances. And corporations are subject to those too. They can be sued for libel for instance.

    But there are no conditions whatsoever on political speech.

    You can, of course, lie and distort in order to fool people, so long as you're influencing their votes rather than persuading them to buy a product. Doing more to allow this sort of thing on a grand scale seems like a bad idea.
    Doesn't matter if you think it's a bad idea. It's not for you to decide. The Constitution says no.

    If corporations can convince us that we need to use a product like mouthwash (which actually causes bad breath) because without it our social lives will crumble to the dust of loneliness, I don't think I want to trust them with more influence over politics.
    That would make a great argument for restricting the speech of just about anyone who disagree with.

  6. #576
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    No, it means THOSE "groups" (which aren't groups but ideas as you well noted in this very thread)
    No, they are groups. Many are also corporations too!

    are protected by the first amendment. I truly don't understand how you can continually dismiss this.
    Yes. So the founding fathers clearly saw that freedom was no conditional on acting only as an individual.

  7. #577
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    Yeah, do you need me to provide the source?
    Yes. Where did they say literally that money = speech?

    Please quote where I said that. Nothing in what you quoted and then responded to has the word government nor implies it, yet you created a statement that I didn't say.
    Of course it's the government - who else is going to restrict speech? This decision overturned a law passed by the government that restricted corporate speech. You don't get that?

  8. #578
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Says 100+ years of detailed caselaw.
    Says you ... with no proof.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    No, YOU brought up Constitional rights. Freedom of religion is one of those. YOU are evading.
    We were not discussing religion. YOU brought that up... as a dodge tactic.


    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    And your views clearly aren't reflected in reality.
    Ad hom attacks are not required.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    So churches don't have freedom of religion, only people? And newspapers don't have freedom of speech, only people? And the government could confiscate corporate property without compensation?
    The freedoms belong to the PEOPLE ... NOT THE ORGANIZATIONS.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    You dodged these questions once, you'll do it again.
    The only person dodging here is you.

  9. #579
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    So, in your universe stockholders are what, robots, or dogs?
    Duuuhhhh, isn't dey da ownerz?[/sarcasm]

    In a free market, no one has "control" over the economy.

    We should get back to being free.
    Oh you must mean laissez faire economics. Please name one country that has such? If it's so great then surely some other nation must be using that ideal... I'll wait.

    Government control of the economy has been proven, 100% of every case in history, to suck. Right now the Messiah has control of the economy, and his ignorant ass doesn't blink at the notion of 1500 billion dollar deficits.
    No, corporate control of the government is the problem. There is a tug-o-war going on between the "people" and the "corporate interests" which leads to half-assed or completely stupid legislation. This is because the politicians have to try and please both in order to get and stay elected. They should only be trying to please "the people".

    Bla bla bla.
    That is basically your argument.

    Too bad for you, "Reaganomics" didn't fail.


    We are living it. It's a proven failure.

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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    What legal responsibilities come with freedom of speech? What exactly are you legally required to do in order to have it? If you don't live up to those responsibilities, can your freedom of speech be taken away too?
    Guy in crowded movie theater yelling FIRE. Anything else you need proven?

    EDIT: disregard... I just read the Rassales' response.
    Last edited by NoJingoLingo; 02-03-10 at 06:08 PM.

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