View Poll Results: Should Corproations have "personhood" rights?

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  • Yes, corporations are just like a person

    18 18.18%
  • No, corporations are not just like a person

    81 81.82%
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Thread: Corporate Personhood

  1. #31
    Educator nerv14's Avatar
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Even though I believe that corporations shouldn't have the same rights as people, i want to play the other side a little bit because there doesn't seem to be much back and forth on this issue now.


    I have wondered that if we do get rid of the personhood of corporations then that will vastly harm the confidence that stockholders have to invest in corporations.

    My point is that especially with this economy, I wish there was some way to value the drop in the stock market and the effects of even less investments in corporations. Those secondly effects of less protections for corporations would be even worse now with the poor economy as it is.

  2. #32
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    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Seriously, dude. Do I have to pick out a few things you like? The civil rights movement, environmental protection, etc?
    I do not automatically agree with all those things.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Lobbyists have no power, only influence. Voters still have all the power.
    Well, all I can say is that when bills are crafted, politicians listen to lobbyists more about what should be in a bill than what voters want.

    See health care debate for further info.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  3. #33
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    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Whether or not you're fond of it doesn't really matter; it's still a distinction with no real difference.
    It certainly has a distinction.

    AARP can speak, generally, for 30 million people.
    They can directly lobby government.

    I as an individual am crowded out by those groups.
    I have no access.

    The Majority is effectively ruling while the minority is excluded.
    That is not how things are supposed to operate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Certainly you understand why such limited liability exists (and it's not absolute, either).
    I do understand why but I don't agree with it.

    Businesses are owned and run by individuals.
    The corporation itself does not do anything and does not make any decisions but they are treated like they do.

    If Monsanto dumps 30 tons of toxic sludge into a river, the people who authorized such a thing should be jailed and their personal estates should be fined.

    The corporation should not shield them from prosecution.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  4. #34
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    Even though I believe that corporations shouldn't have the same rights as people, i want to play the other side a little bit because there doesn't seem to be much back and forth on this issue now.


    I have wondered that if we do get rid of the personhood of corporations then that will vastly harm the confidence that stockholders have to invest in corporations.

    My point is that especially with this economy, I wish there was some way to value the drop in the stock market and the effects of even less investments in corporations. Those secondly effects of less protections for corporations would be even worse now with the poor economy as it is.
    It's a double edge sword.

    In my mind, giantness of corporations is worse than the devaluation of shares in the market.
    Small businesses are greater than large corporations but then I'm a decentralist when it comes to economics.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  5. #35
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
    Harshaw's Avatar
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It certainly has a distinction.

    AARP can speak, generally, for 30 million people.
    They can directly lobby government.

    I as an individual am crowded out by those groups.
    I have no access.

    The Majority is effectively ruling while the minority is excluded.
    That is not how things are supposed to operate.
    No, distinguishing the people from the group is no real difference. The group doesn't have a mind of its own distinct from the people in it.



    I do understand why but I don't agree with it.

    Businesses are owned and run by individuals.
    The corporation itself does not do anything and does not make any decisions but they are treated like they do.

    If Monsanto dumps 30 tons of toxic sludge into a river, the people who authorized such a thing should be jailed and their personal estates should be fined.

    The corporation should not shield them from prosecution.
    I never argued for or against that.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  6. #36
    Educator nerv14's Avatar
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It's a double edge sword.

    In my mind, giantness of corporations is worse than the devaluation of shares in the market.
    Small businesses are greater than large corporations but then I'm a decentralist when it comes to economics.
    I agree that the protections that corporations have is worse then the harm to our economy, but if anything, I am supportive of corporations because they are much more efficient for so many industries.

    Wholesalers is the best example, but for that industry large corporations are needed because of the very, very large economics of scale for industry.

    If those industries get too harmed from removing the corporation protection then it could get very costly, even in the long run because large corporations are needed for those industries.

  7. #37
    Student pugetsoundwa's Avatar
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/images...s/eusa_doh.gif
    Yes, I did.

    Is the press a person? Is a newspaper or TV station a person?



    Yes. Congress is also forbidden from passing laws restricting the free speech rights of trucks. If you ever need to protect that right, call the ACLU.
    No however, our ForeFathers NEVER could have dreamt a day of TV NEWS, Internet NEWs and such. The press in their days often relied on the PEOPLE to send letters to the PRESS to publish in their paper. Thus freedom of the PRESS meant the Freedom for ME to question the GOVT, write a letter to my local newspaper and having it PRINTED for all to see.

  8. #38
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    No, distinguishing the people from the group is no real difference. The group doesn't have a mind of its own distinct from the people in it.
    That is exactly why groups don't have rights.

    Groups are not anything but a collaboration of individuals but they do not form a whole new person and thus cannot have rights as a group but as individuals.

    A group such as AARP should not be able to lobby the government but individuals should be able to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    I never argued for or against that.
    I understand but that is all part of it.

    In a lot of instances corporate protections shield people from what would normally be criminal and personal liability.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  9. #39
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I do not automatically agree with all those things.
    But I could find something you do. For every issue, there are lobbyists on BOTH sides.

    Well, all I can say is that when bills are crafted, politicians listen to lobbyists more about what should be in a bill than what voters want.

    See health care debate for further info.
    Really? While the Republicans are crowing about their victory in Massachusetts?

    If the people re-elect someone, it means they approve of the job someone is doing. Nobody stays in Washington long without facing the voters again. The voters have 100% of the power.

  10. #40
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    I agree that the protections that corporations have is worse then the harm to our economy, but if anything, I am supportive of corporations because they are much more efficient for so many industries.

    Wholesalers is the best example, but for that industry large corporations are needed because of the very, very large economics of scale for industry.

    If those industries get too harmed from removing the corporation protection then it could get very costly, even in the long run because large corporations are needed for those industries.
    I don't have a problem with corporations existing out of normal circumstances.

    If a wholesale group can exist in the same way whether or not they had the shield of corporate personhood, then so be it.

    This recession has taught me a lot about businesses, specifically the business I work for has consolidated production facilities as well as outsource transportation to third parties and it has increased efficiency.

    It went from a large cap company to a mid cap.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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