View Poll Results: Should Corproations have "personhood" rights?

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  • Yes, corporations are just like a person

    18 18.18%
  • No, corporations are not just like a person

    81 81.82%
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Thread: Corporate Personhood

  1. #261
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    People spend money, a corporation cannot it is not alive.
    Oh, so now corporations don't spend money either.

    Great! So if it is just individuals spending the money, they can do so using their right to freedom of speech. That settles the matter.

    My bad, and I apologize if it came off as personally insulting.
    I meant to word it as the idea is retarded and not you.
    You don't get it. I'm not insulted by it, it is offensive because you insult the mentally retarded by using it. Including members of my family.

    Corporations can not speak, they are not alive.
    Corporations are abstracts, you can not put a corporation in my hand.
    You cannot hear a corporation speak.
    But you can send a check with a corporation's name on it to a TV station to pay for a political ad.

    Like I said, if corporations can't speak, then there is no issue here - it's just about individuals exercising their right to speak using money from an account that happens to come from a corporation.

    A political party also isn't a person - do parties have no freedom of speech?

    A church is a building and is not a living thing, it cannot make any choices, much less a choice of religion.
    No, not a building - a membership organization. Like the Roman Catholic Church. Do religious organizations have freedom of religion?

    A person can be represented by a corporation as well as on an individual basis, do you not see how this can be problematic?
    No. I am represented by myself and by the groups I'm a member of.

    Corporation = abstract, not real except on paper.

    Abstracts are not alive and can not make choices.
    All you're doing is arguing that people are making the decisions behind corporations, which is absolutely true. And since people have freedom of speech, it should be no problem for you.

  2. #262
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    A group must use an individual to take action.
    That individual has a right to free speech not the group itself.
    That may be the way you'd prefer it (though I don't get why), but that's not the way it is.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  3. #263
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Oh, so now corporations don't spend money either.

    Great! So if it is just individuals spending the money, they can do so using their right to freedom of speech. That settles the matter.
    Pretty much.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  4. #264
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Not at all, individuals can still lobby for themselves.
    There is nothing preventing that.
    Yes, but if you prevent a corporation from lobbying (through use of corporate funds by an individual or individuals who are members of said corporation), then you prevent the individuals who make up that corporation from using it's funds to lobby, thus violating their rights to free speech.

    Personally, I wish there were a way to separate money and politics...But that is impossible.
    Education.

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  5. #265
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Yes, but if you prevent a corporation from lobbying (through use of corporate funds by an individual or individuals who are members of said corporation), then you prevent the individuals who make up that corporation from using it's funds to lobby, thus violating their rights to free speech.

    Personally, I wish there were a way to separate money and politics...But that is impossible.
    No it's not.

    Money doesn't elect people. Votes do. Bribing people to vote is illegal. So the voters have 100% of the power, no tmoney.

  6. #266
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    No it's not.

    Money doesn't elect people. Votes do. Bribing people to vote is illegal. So the voters have 100% of the power, not money.
    Directly bribing people to vote may be illegal, but indirect ways to do so are multitude.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  7. #267
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    No it's not.

    Money doesn't elect people. Votes do. Bribing people to vote is illegal. So the voters have 100% of the power, no tmoney.
    That's absolutely false. Sure, it is illegal to bribe people to vote, but you can certainly buy votes by putting ads on TV telling people what they want to hear, whether or not it's factually true. That's all political ads are, a means of putting money to work buying votes by convincing people that your candidate is the one that ought to be voted for, or that the other candidate is someone that ought to be voted against.

    The people with the most money, who can put out the most pervasive ad campaign, have a vast advantage over the candidate who has less money and less access to advertising.
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  8. #268
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Never said there was.

    I said:

    By which I meant:

    Corporations in most cases probably take political positions which benefit their members financially.
    Yeh, you have to use alot of "probaby's" and "maybe's" in that one because iwhen corporations "speak" for their employees or shareholders, it is purely by accident. You simply cannot claim that a corporation consists of a group of individuals who speak as one. You cannot even identify who speaks.
    Additionally, corporations DO speak for their employees and/or shareholders when they take political positions. Their employees and/or shareholders just don’t pay as much attention.
    NO,NO, NO, They do not! Do you think that corporations are minny democracies? Shareholder control/ democracy is Soviet style rule. Employees of G.E. did not lobby for free trade so they could lose their jobs! That is just absurd. As often as not, corporate values are in opposition to those of its employees and shareholders.

  9. #269
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Employees are hired by corporations. They're not part of the corporation unless they own stock.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  10. #270
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Employees are hired by corporations. They're not part of the corporation unless they own stock.
    Yes, of course. Some people have included employees in the "group" that corporations supposedly represent.

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