View Poll Results: Should Corproations have "personhood" rights?

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  • Yes, corporations are just like a person

    18 18.18%
  • No, corporations are not just like a person

    81 81.82%
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Thread: Corporate Personhood

  1. #251
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    What evidence is there that corporations speak for either employees or shareholders? None . A "share" is simply a financial instrument not a political position.
    Never said there was.

    I said:
    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    I would argue that as both the A.A.R.P and the N.R.A take political positions which benefit their members, so also do corporations take political positions which benefit their members.
    By which I meant:

    Corporations in most cases probably take political positions which benefit their members financially.
    Groups like the A.A.R.P and the N.R.A in most cases probably take political positions which benefit their members socially (and perhaps to some extent financially, as in Social Security, Medicare (sp?), etc.).

    Additionally, corporations DO speak for their employees and/or shareholders when they take political positions. Their employees and/or shareholders just don’t pay as much attention.
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  2. #252
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Do newspapers have rights, or just the individuals running them? Newspapers spend corporate money from their their treasuries, exactly like corporations, to pay for the ink and paper to express the views of the individuals.
    No the individuals do that.
    A corporation is not alive and cannot do such a thing.

    "is the attribution of human characteristics to non-human creatures and beings, phenomena, material states and objects or abstract concepts. Examples include animals and plants and forces of nature such as winds, rain or the sun depicted as creatures with human motivation able to reason and converse."

    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropomorphism]Anthropomorphism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Or as corporate entities. Just like a newspaper publisher can.
    Why do they need to be corporations and not just simple owners or a partnership?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Again, read it. There is nothing about individuals with regard to freedom of speech.
    Because they did not think that people would be infinitely retarded to believe that something that is not sapient, sentient and alive could do anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Are churches groups? Hmmm. What about when a corporate entity is sued - does it have a right to a jury trial, etc? I wonder.
    No a corporation does not have a right to a jury trial.
    Corporations do not do anything, the owners and employees do.

    People, who are alive and can make choices are afforded those rights.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 01-24-10 at 08:57 PM.
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  3. #253
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    No the individuals do that.
    A corporation is not alive and cannot do such a thing.
    So you're saying newspapers don't spend money?

    Why do they need to be corporations and not just simple owners or a partnership?
    The point is they ARE corporations, yet nobody would say they have no right to freedom of the press. Even if they were a partnership - a partnership is not an individual. It's a partnership.

    Because they did not think that people who be infinitely retarded to believe that something that is not sapient, sentient and alive could do anything.
    Don't use the term retarded please. It's rude.

    The First Amendment says "Congress shall make no law..." No exceptions based on who, or what, is speaking.

    No a corporation does not have a right to a jury trial.
    Yes, it does:

    U.S. Supreme Court
    ROSS v. BERNHARD, 396 U.S. 531 (1970)
    396 U.S. 531

    ROSS ET AL., TRUSTEES v. BERNHARD ET AL.
    CERTIORARI TO THE UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE SECOND CIRCUIT
    No. 42.
    Argued November 10, 1969
    Decided February 2, 1970

    The right to trial by jury preserved by the Seventh Amendment extends to a stockholder's derivative suit with respect to those issues as to which the corporation, had it been suing in its own right, would have been entitled to a jury trial.
    http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/script...=396&invol=531

    What about churches - do they have freedom of religion?

    Corporations do not do anything, the owners and employees do.
    Hey, fine - then the individuals running the corporations are the ones doing the freedom of speech thing.

    People, who are alive and can make choices are afforded those rights.
    Corporations can make choices too.

    You, like so many people, jumped to a hasty conclusion you didn't think through. Not a big deal, just drop it.
    Last edited by misterman; 01-24-10 at 09:02 PM.

  4. #254
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Because very few, if any, groups have the exact same unified beliefs.

    Every human is different in beliefs, even if it is a matter of degree.
    That may be an argument for why it "shouldn't" apply, but it's not evidence of what the Bill of Rights was "meant" to do.

    Besides, you don't need entirely unified beliefs to act/speak as a group.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  5. #255
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    A group of people pool their money to buy an ad.

    A group of people form a corporation, using the corporation's money to buy an ad.

    What's the difference?

  6. #256
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    What evidence is there that corporations speak for either employees or shareholders? None . A "share" is simply a financial instrument not a political position.
    A corporation has no reason to "speak for" employees any more than I as individual would have to speak for my accountant.

    A share (usually) gives you a vote in the corporation.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  7. #257
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    So you're saying newspapers don't spend money?
    People spend money, a corporation cannot it is not alive.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    The point is they ARE corporations, yet nobody would say they have no right to freedom of the press. Even if they were a partnership - a partnership is not an individual. It's a partnership.
    And each partner can exercise their rights in any way that they please.
    Each partner is fully liable for their decisions.

    Under current law, a corporation can be held liable even though individuals broke the law.
    A contradiction perhaps?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Don't use the term retarded please. It's rude.

    The First Amendment says "Congress shall make no law..." No exceptions based on who, or what, is speaking.
    My bad, and I apologize if it came off as personally insulting.
    I meant to word it as the idea is retarded and not you.

    Corporations can not speak, they are not alive.
    Corporations are abstracts, you can not put a corporation in my hand.
    You cannot hear a corporation speak.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Yes, it does:



    FindLaw | Cases and Codes

    What about churches - do they have freedom of religion?
    A church is a building and is not a living thing, it cannot make any choices, much less a choice of religion.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Hey, fine - then the individuals running the corporations are the ones doing the freedom of speech thing.
    Exactly, one problem with corporate personhood is that it can give some people double representation.

    A person can be represented by a corporation as well as on an individual basis, do you not see how this can be problematic?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Corporations can make choices too.

    You, like so many people, jumped to a hasty conclusion you didn't think through. Not a big deal, just drop it.
    Corporation = abstract, not real except on paper.

    Abstracts are not alive and can not make choices.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  8. #258
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    That may be an argument for why it "shouldn't" apply, but it's not evidence of what the Bill of Rights was "meant" to do.

    Besides, you don't need entirely unified beliefs to act/speak as a group.
    A group must use an individual to take action.
    That individual has a right to free speech not the group itself.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  9. #259
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    A group must use an individual to take action.
    That individual has a right to free speech not the group itself.
    Thus it would seem denying a corporation as a whole the ability to take action would be denying an individual member of the corporation the ability to take action
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    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  10. #260
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Thus it would seem denying a corporation as a whole the ability to take action would be denying an individual member of the corporation the ability to take action
    Not at all, individuals can still lobby for themselves.
    There is nothing preventing that.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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