View Poll Results: Should Corproations have "personhood" rights?

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  • Yes, corporations are just like a person

    18 18.18%
  • No, corporations are not just like a person

    81 81.82%
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Thread: Corporate Personhood

  1. #151
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Screw reading this whole thread, I'm feelin lazy today.

    My take on this question is as follows:

    No, Corporations are not persons.

    However, corporations are simply groups of persons who decided to incorporate themselves for tax and other reasons.

    Thus, IMO, it would follow that:
    Corporations, as a grouping of persons, can, if directed by an individual and/or consensus of individuals who own/run said corporation, exercise a form of freedom of speech by contributing to a candidate or candidates whose policies they feel will benefit them.
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  2. #152
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Screw reading this whole thread, I'm feelin lazy today.

    My take on this question is as follows:

    No, Corporations are not persons.

    However, corporations are simply groups of persons who decided to incorporate themselves for tax and other reasons.

    Thus, IMO, it would follow that:
    Corporations, as a grouping of persons, can, if directed by an individual and/or consensus of individuals who own/run said corporation, exercise a form of freedom of speech by contributing to a candidate or candidates whose policies they feel will benefit them.
    Yep. You didn't even need to read the thread.

  3. #153
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    yeah all of that is fine, except for the last one of course though.
    Why? Why makes the first ones okay but the last one improper? They all involve the expenditure of money in order to support a candidate.
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  4. #154
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    Obviously people have a choice who they will vote for.

    but statistically, if you throw alot of money advertising for a candidate, many more people will support them. Individuals are individuals, but we all have actions that statistically are promoted by certain causes.
    So? That's democracy. If you don't like the way people vote, you can't just declare that they can't hear certain messages you don't like them to hear.

    all of you seem to be arguing against ANY regulations on campaign contributions.
    The Supreme Court's decision has absolutely nothing to do with campaign contributions. The current prohibition on corporations (and unions) giving contributions to political campaigns from their treasuries is intact.

  5. #155
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Human action is always toward profit. In this way there is no difference between the corporation and a person.
    Oh, come now. You can't believe your own signature and say that. Humans have compassion, they care about the future of their children, they have lots of motivations beyond profit. Corporations look after only one thing, and rarely care what happens more than about 60 months in the future.
    Except that no one is stopping the separate entities that comprise the corporation from speaking out on those things that are most important to them.
    Actually, many of them (employees) can't. Most shareholders keep their stakes through mutual funds and pension plans and may not even know what are the profit interests of their own holdings. As for management, there are lots of corporate managers who take actions they personally find distasteful but that they do because their training as businesspeople requires it.

    Take, for example, some environmental legislation. Let's say that it's not trivial--that it involves protections that most of us would want. Yet most legislation of this kind adversely affects the bottom line of some businesses. Those businesses, if they are corporations, will act in defense of their bottom line no matter how dangerous the individuals running the corporation consider it. If it's possible to obfuscate the issue to convince people otherwise (unfortunately, not that hard to do), a corporation has an OBLIGATION to do so. This does not make it immoral; corporations are amoral.
    Last edited by Rassales; 01-23-10 at 09:38 PM.

  6. #156
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    Oh, come now. You can't believe your own signature and say that. Humans have compassion, they care about the future of their children, they have lots of motivations beyond profit. Corporations look after only one thing, and rarely care what happens more than about 60 months in the future.
    I know a few humans who aren't like that though. I know a few who have no compassion and only care about profit. Should we take away their freedom of speech based on that?

    Listen to what you're saying - you are putting conditions on rights. You're saying freedom of speech should be taken away based on what is said, or who is saying it. That's scary.

  7. #157
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post


    No, more speech is better than less. A place where everyone is forbidden from speaking isn't a democracy.
    Yes, more speech is better, more discussion, more debate, more written editorial, all better ... But we aren't talking about debate, we are talking about sound bites, unchallenged mis-quotes, assorted propoganda , persuasion via money ..it is the antithesis of discussion, it is decidedly not making Americans better informed and is concentrated in a broadcast medium whose price is beyond the reach of mere mortals.

    And as everyone knows, the corporate person is not mortal.

  8. #158
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Okay, so we're in agreement. GM can pay me $25 million to film and distribute a whole bunch of ads supporting its preferred candidate. GM is not speaking, they're simply giving me money while I exercise my right to free speech.
    GM can not give you money, a person must do so.
    I do not believe in corporations as persons because they are not.
    Sole owners or a group of owners can contract you but a corporation can not do so.
    They still must make that choice as individuals.

    Anthropomorphism for the win!

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Each parishioner could practice their religion on their own, but they have come together and formed a church. The existence of that church makes their religious practice simpler and more beneficial. By banning the church, the government would be forbidding them from exercising their right to practice as a group. The fact that the individuals could continue to practice their religion on their own does not excuse this constitutional violation.
    Communal ownerships does not give groups free speech, the individuals of a group have free speech.
    Banning a church would be banning the individuals who practice as they wish.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Each individual could exercise free speech on their own, but they have come together and formed a corporation. The existence of that corporation makes their speech simpler and more beneficial. By banning the corporation from speaking, the government would be forbidding them from exercising their right to speak as a group. The fact that the individuals could continue to exercise their speech on their own does not excuse this constitutional violation.
    No such right to exists because groups are not a person.

    Large groups have been shown to make poor decisions in some circumstances and it really isn't all that beneficial as the leaders of such groups become entrenched in gaining more than the group originally wanted or changing the direction with the group following out of herd type behavior.

    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink]Groupthink - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_behaviour]Herd behavior - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]


    Again it violates the core principal of a republic, majority rule but not at the expense of the minority.
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  9. #159
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Screw reading this whole thread, I'm feelin lazy today.

    My take on this question is as follows:

    No, Corporations are not persons.

    However, corporations are simply groups of persons who decided to incorporate themselves for tax and other reasons.

    Thus, IMO, it would follow that:
    Corporations, as a grouping of persons, can, if directed by an individual and/or consensus of individuals who own/run said corporation, exercise a form of freedom of speech by contributing to a candidate or candidates whose policies they feel will benefit them.
    But that is not what happens. That is sophistry. Most people don't know what is in their mutual fund or 401K and have not actively consented to any such form of political propaganda -what you call speech.

  10. #160
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    But that is not what happens. That is sophistry. Most people don't know what is in their mutual fund or 401K and have not actively consented to any such form of political propaganda -what you call speech.
    Exactly, the larger the group gets the less they know of and understand the inner workings of said group.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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