View Poll Results: Should Corproations have "personhood" rights?

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  • Yes, corporations are just like a person

    18 18.18%
  • No, corporations are not just like a person

    81 81.82%
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Thread: Corporate Personhood

  1. #131
    Educator nerv14's Avatar
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    ok, i have to repeat this in another post because its so important.


    for anyone to say that someone's right to express their opinion in some way (like donating money to a campaign) needs to be upheld, you need to supply a reason why that right must be upheld.

    all i am hearing is that the first amendment says that, but you need to ask yourselves why freedom of speech is so important at this instance.
    Last edited by nerv14; 01-23-10 at 04:20 PM.

  2. #132
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Because freedom of speech, and the right to support the candidate of your choice, affects elections.

    The main purpose of political free speech is to persuade people to come around to your point of view, or to vote for the person you favor.

    Who gets elected affects what laws are passed and the general character of government.

    Can't get too much more important than that.

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  3. #133
    Advisor Rassales's Avatar
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Hmmm, does this mean corporations can get married?
    Yep. It's called a "merger."

  4. #134
    Educator nerv14's Avatar
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Because freedom of speech, and the right to support the candidate of your choice, affects elections.

    The main purpose of political free speech is to persuade people to come around to your point of view, or to vote for the person you favor.

    Who gets elected affects what laws are passed and the general character of government.

    Can't get too much more important than that.
    yeah, and the problem is that most people do not want interests with large amounts of money to have too much influence over how we vote.

    I don't see anything wrong with an individual saying what they want about a candidate, but there are problems when large amounts of money control the dialogue that is going on.

  5. #135
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    yeah, and the problem is that most people do not want interests with large amounts of money to have too much influence over how we vote.

    I don't see anything wrong with an individual saying what they want about a candidate, but there are problems when large amounts of money control the dialogue that is going on.
    Most people have a problem with groups that they disagree with throwing large amounts of money around on political speech. When we're talking about a group/org they support, then "that's different".

    I don't like George Soros throwing around millions upon millions to influence elections.

    I'm perfectly fine with the NRA or GOA doing it...because I'm a member of both organizations and they are helping forward the agenda of millions of people like me.

    Matter of perspective. If I want to have my NRA and GOA, then I guess I have to tolerate Soros.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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  6. #136
    Educator nerv14's Avatar
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Most people have a problem with groups that they disagree with throwing large amounts of money around on political speech. When we're talking about a group/org they support, then "that's different".

    I don't like George Soros throwing around millions upon millions to influence elections.

    I'm perfectly fine with the NRA or GOA doing it...because I'm a member of both organizations and they are helping forward the agenda of millions of people like me.

    Matter of perspective. If I want to have my NRA and GOA, then I guess I have to tolerate Soros.
    The conflict that you have would be avoided IF NO organization could donate as much money as they wanted to a campaign.

    An environment that outlaws unlimited contributions from the NRA, GOA and Soros is better then one that allows full donations from all of them.

  7. #137
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    The conflict that you have would be avoided IF NO organization could donate as much money as they wanted to a campaign.

    An environment that outlaws unlimited contributions from the NRA, GOA and Soros is better then one that allows full donations from all of them.
    Define contributions. Would that include an organization taking it upon itself to air ads supporting Candidate X? Or ads supporting a principle Candidate X is known to support, even if it doesn't mention him by name?

    Or are you only referring to direct campaign contributions?

    It is proven fact that when millions of ordinary citizens pool what resources they can spend on politics together, their voice is heard in the halls of power more effectively than if they were acting purely as individuals. This is where I have issues.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
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  8. #138
    Educator nerv14's Avatar
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Define contributions. Would that include an organization taking it upon itself to air ads supporting Candidate X?
    if the organization created and paid for the adds, then there would be regulations.

    Or ads supporting a principle Candidate X is known to support, even if it doesn't mention him by name?
    Yes, if it was explicit enough then it would be regulated.

    But if national geographic does a program on global warming for instance, then they can not say that democrats are promoting that.

    I think I would be against them saying that "cap and trade" would be the best policy to confront global warming though.

    They would only be able to go so far to say that many scientists think that CO2 emissions should be cut for instance.

    I don't think there would be any problems with that policy by the government, if there is any then point them out.

    Or are you only referring to direct campaign contributions?
    nope, any type of monetary assistance for a candidate.
    It is proven fact that when millions of ordinary citizens pool what resources they can spend on politics together, their voice is heard in the halls of power more effectively than if they were acting purely as individuals. This is where I have issues.
    I don't think we disagree on this issue too much then.

    As long as there is a cap on contributions from an individual, to an organization that can promote a candidate as much as they want, then that is fine. If everyone in the NRA donates $1000 or something to the organization to lobby, then I would have no problem with that.

    The problem is that corporations or labor unions are able to contribute money with no limit for a cause. there would need to be limits on corporation contributions per corporation or per revenue.
    Last edited by nerv14; 01-23-10 at 05:26 PM.

  9. #139
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Corporations are created to share the risk of owning a business amongst many people. It is not a person in itself. It is composed of people. The corporation does not have an income tax, the people who compose it are subject to the income tax. The free speech of a corporation should not be infringed upon because doing so infringes upon the free speech of the people who compose the corporation.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
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  10. #140
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    I am against people using money to accomplish that.

    for instance, if an individual wants to vollunteer their time for a candidate that is fine. (if its direct or indirect like talking to your friends then that is fine)

    but you can't go hiring someone to talk about a candidate to talk to people to promote the candidate without restrictions.
    I shouldn't be able to rent a car to drive door to door to talk about a candidate that I like? I shouldn't be able to use a stamp to mail a letter to a paper about a candidate I like? I shouldn't be able to buy some chips to feed people who come to an event I'm hosting to talk about a candidate I like? I shouldn't be able to take out an ad in the local paper urging people to vote for a candidate I like?
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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