View Poll Results: Should Corproations have "personhood" rights?

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  • Yes, corporations are just like a person

    18 18.18%
  • No, corporations are not just like a person

    81 81.82%
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Thread: Corporate Personhood

  1. #121
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    That doesn't fly, the actors etc, are exercising their rights to free speech.
    They just happened to be paid for it.

    Being paid makes no difference.
    Okay, so we're in agreement. GM can pay me $25 million to film and distribute a whole bunch of ads supporting its preferred candidate. GM is not speaking, they're simply giving me money while I exercise my right to free speech.

    The parishioners own the church collectively but if the church was banned, it could infringe on their individual right to practice freely.
    Each parishioner could practice their religion on their own, but they have come together and formed a church. The existence of that church makes their religious practice simpler and more beneficial. By banning the church, the government would be forbidding them from exercising their right to practice as a group. The fact that the individuals could continue to practice their religion on their own does not excuse this constitutional violation.

    Each individual could exercise free speech on their own, but they have come together and formed a corporation. The existence of that corporation makes their speech simpler and more beneficial. By banning the corporation from speaking, the government would be forbidding them from exercising their right to speak as a group. The fact that the individuals could continue to exercise their speech on their own does not excuse this constitutional violation.
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  2. #122
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Okay, so we're in agreement. GM can pay me $25 million to film and distribute a whole bunch of ads supporting its preferred candidate. GM is not speaking, they're simply giving me money while I exercise my right to free speech.



    Each parishioner could practice their religion on their own, but they have come together and formed a church. The existence of that church makes their religious practice simpler and more beneficial. By banning the church, the government would be forbidding them from exercising their right to practice as a group. The fact that the individuals could continue to practice their religion on their own does not excuse this constitutional violation.

    Each individual could exercise free speech on their own, but they have come together and formed a corporation. The existence of that corporation makes their speech simpler and more beneficial. By banning the corporation from speaking, the government would be forbidding them from exercising their right to speak as a group. The fact that the individuals could continue to exercise their speech on their own does not excuse this constitutional violation.

    Yes, exactly. I myself cannot afford to buy advertising time on TV, or lobby Congress; I lack the money and resources to do so alone. But I can donate money to the NRA, and along with the contributions of millions of people like me, they can lobby and buy airtime in my stead.

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  3. #123
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassales View Post
    I suspect the net effect of this will be a growth in cynicism about all these institutions and a growing distrust of politics.
    I agree. This will be largely due to the misconstrual of this decision and outright fearmongering coming from those on the left who are making a populist tack for the fall elections.
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  4. #124
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    Cool Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    So, go for it.

    The point will still stand, though it may be weakened slightly. The point doesn't require an absolute in order to be valid. If it did, I would have been much more cautious about using one. And I really don't think I'll lose much sleep over the vanishingly small hit to my credibility, but thanks anyway.
    I think you missed the point I was trying to make... that the perceived 'benefits' of granting corporations the 'right to free speech' is 'subjective.'

    Beyond that,... it's a matter of what is and what it not "Constitutional." And, I believe the Supreme Court has made the right decision in this case.

    The way it's supposed to work under our Constitution is that we all have rights and freedoms to do pretty much what we want to,... so long as it conforms to our laws and the Constitution. Our laws, can not (must not) be made to circumvent or undermine the Constitution,... so laws of that nature inevitably will be challenged. (as was the case here)

    In short, a corporation has all the rights a 'person' does to 'freely speak' unless and until that right can be justifiably denied by an act of 'due process.'

  5. #125
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    Well I think we should discuss this topic. I don't believe corporations should have the rights of a person. What's your take and why?
    I believe that if non-profits can have a voice, then corporations should have a profit. If we take away this right from the corporations, then the non-profits should lose that right as well.

    All, or none.
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  6. #126
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    No you can't, not with the First Amendment in place. Thank God for that, it protects us from people like you.



    Because there's no freedom of donation in the Constitution. There is freedom of speech.

    This supreme court decision had nothing to do with political donations, only speech.
    Then there is no freedom of individuals to use their money to support a candidate.
    It is the same thing as donating their money to support a politician.


    Think of it this way, if i donate money to a politician, or I spend money to support that candidate i am accomplishing the same thing so they should both be limited in the same way.

  7. #127
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    Then there is no freedom of individuals to use their money to support a candidate.
    It is the same thing as donating their money to support a politician.


    Think of it this way, if i donate money to a politician, or I spend money to support that candidate i am accomplishing the same thing so they should both be limited in the same way.
    If you volunteer for a candidate or write letters to the paper about him or tell your friends about him, you are accomplishing the same thing.

    You're right - they should all be limited in the same way. Which is to say, not.
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  8. #128
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    Then there is no freedom of individuals to use their money to support a candidate.
    It is the same thing as donating their money to support a politician.

    Think of it this way, if i donate money to a politician, or I spend money to support that candidate i am accomplishing the same thing so they should both be limited in the same way.
    No, you're not accomplishing the same thing.

    If you buy an ad for yourself, you're exercising your right to speak. If you give money to a candidate, you're helping them exercise their right to speak. When you make a donation, you give up control of the money.

    But if you think so, then there IS a right to donate whatever you want.

  9. #129
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I believe corporations should have SOME (but not all) of the same rights as people. Basically I'm in favor of where the law stood until yesterday, when the Supreme Court overturned 100 years of precedent to give corporations all the rights of human beings.
    Hmmm, does this mean corporations can get married?
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    If you volunteer for a candidate or write letters to the paper about him or tell your friends about him, you are accomplishing the same thing.

    You're right - they should all be limited in the same way. Which is to say, not.
    I am against people using money to accomplish that.



    for instance, if an individual wants to vollunteer their time for a candidate that is fine. (if its direct or indirect like talking to your friends then that is fine)

    but you can't go hiring someone to talk about a candidate to talk to people to promote the candidate without restrictions.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    No, you're not accomplishing the same thing.

    If you buy an ad for yourself, you're exercising your right to speak. If you give money to a candidate, you're helping them exercise their right to speak. When you make a donation, you give up control of the money.

    But if you think so, then there IS a right to donate whatever you want.
    you can say that it is a right as much as you want, but since it has negative effects on society, unlimited donations by an individual for a campaign should be prevented.

    unless you tell me why that "right" needs to be upheld your point is moot.

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