View Poll Results: Is a single celled human zygote an 'organism'?

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  • Yes, a single celled zygote is in fact an organism

    99 51.30%
  • No, a single celled zygote is not in fact an organism

    94 48.70%
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Thread: Is a single celled human zygote an 'organism'?

  1. #141
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    Re: Is a single celled human zygote an 'organism'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    Again, repeter (you voted yes in the poll, remember?),... I would like to see some reference materials where scientists have determined that semen and egg cells are "non-organic amino acids" and are not in fact,... alive.
    Okay, heres the thing. I told you in my previous post, that it is the same principle; that it is possible for nonorganic materials to produce a living thing.

    If you would like to call them specifically amino acids, go right ahead, but thats definitively wrong.

    And in the poll, I was asked whether a zygote is an organism. As pointed out previously in this thread, and as of yet completely unrefuted, it was pointed out there is a difference between an organism and a living thing.

    As for the point concerning semen and egg cells being nonliving, if we stipulate that a living thing has to respond to stimuli, reproduce, grow and develop, and maintain homeostasis as a whole being, then sperm cells and egg cells are not living things.

    You can reference any biology text book for that.
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  2. #142
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    joke Re: Is a single celled human zygote an 'organism'?

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Okay, heres the thing. I told you in my previous post, that it is the same principle; that it is possible for nonorganic materials to produce a living thing.

    If you would like to call them specifically amino acids, go right ahead, but thats definitively wrong.
    Repeter,... you are the one who stated amino acids,... not me.

    Quote;
    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Have you heard of how nonorganic amino acids formed the first living things when the Earth was relatively new? Same principle, different details.
    __________________________________________

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    And in the poll, I was asked whether a zygote is an organism. As pointed out previously in this thread, and as of yet completely unrefuted, it was pointed out there is a difference between an organism and a living thing.
    Your registered vote indicates that you believe a zygote is in fact an organism. Remember?

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    As for the point concerning semen and egg cells being nonliving, if we stipulate that a living thing has to respond to stimuli, reproduce, grow and develop, and maintain homeostasis as a whole being, then sperm cells and egg cells are not living things.
    I see,...

    "If we define something so as to exclude that which we want to exclude,.... then those things we excluded won't fit the definition and,..... no harm no foul." Right?

    Got it.

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    ,... if we stipulate that a living thing has to respond to stimuli, reproduce, grow and develop, and maintain homeostasis as a whole being, then sperm cells and egg cells are not living things You can reference any biology text book for that.
    Yeah,... no....

    I would like for you to provide the source to back this claim of yours up.

  3. #143
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    Re: Is a single celled human zygote an 'organism'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    Repeter,... you are the one who stated amino acids,... not me.

    Quote;
    Perhaps you misunderstood, but I was referring to the Early Earth example. The principle behind that example is what is in play in the current issue.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    Your registered vote indicates that you believe a zygote is in fact an organism.
    My registered vote, under the circumstances and criteria given, was what I believed. Seeing as there is a lot more to the question of zygotes then the question of whether they are organisms, which they quite obviously are, the question is in fact irrelevant which you haven't seemed to been able to grasp as of yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    "If we define something so as to exclude that which we want to exclude,.... then those things we excluded won't fit the definition and,..... no harm no foul." Right?Got it.
    Yes, seeing as you don't like the fact that the stipulations given, you decide to simply ignore them, and carry on in blissful ignorance. How about you tackle the issue of the stipulations being included in the arguement?



    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    Yeah,... no....

    I would like for you to provide the source to back this claim of yours up.
    I don't feel like properly citing it as a source, so here it is: AP Biology 8th Edition, by Campbell and Reece.
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  4. #144
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    rolleyes Re: Is a single celled human zygote an 'organism'?

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Perhaps you misunderstood, but I was referring to the Early Earth example. The principle behind that example is what is in play in the current issue.
    As of yet, you have failed to provide anything in the way of proof to support the claim that "zygotes" are formed by the uniting of "non living" "inorganic" (amino acid) sperm and eggs,...

    I'm still waiting.

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    My registered vote, under the circumstances and criteria given, was what I believed. Seeing as there is a lot more to the question of zygotes then the question of whether they are organisms, which they quite obviously are, the question is in fact irrelevant which you haven't seemed to been able to grasp as of yet.
    Obviously(?) ,.... Ian and Phil do not seem to agree with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Yes, seeing as you don't like the fact that the stipulations given, you decide to simply ignore them, and carry on in blissful ignorance. How about you tackle the issue of the stipulations being included in the arguement?
    I see you have completely missed the point I was making.

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    I don't feel like properly citing it as a source, so here it is: AP Biology 8th Edition, by Campbell and Reece.
    Again,... I'll wait for you to find a proper cite.

  5. #145
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    Re: Is a single celled human zygote an 'organism'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    As of yet, you have failed to provide anything in the way of proof to support the claim that "zygotes" are formed by the uniting of "non living" "inorganic" (amino acid) sperm and eggs,...

    I'm still waiting.
    Have you missed everything I've said?


    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    Obviously(?) ,.... Ian and Phil do not seem to agree with you.
    Yeah, I'm not Ian and Phil though.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    I see you have completely missed the point I was making.
    Just returning the favor.



    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    Again,... I'll wait for you to find a proper cite.
    Haha, it'll take some time to find one that you'll except
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  6. #146
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    Re: Is a single celled human zygote an 'organism'?

    Quote Originally Posted by iangb View Post
    If it's a developing organism, then it will become an organism, which implies it's not an organism yet.

    There certainly won't be any debate if you're not prepared to have one.
    No debate is necessary. An organism is a living being that has (or can develop) the ability to act or function independently. A human zygote is a human organism at the earliest stages of development. It is not developing into an organism, it is an organism that is continuing to develop into its full self. Babies and children are developing, but that does not automatically imply they are not organisms.

    Quote Originally Posted by iangb View Post
    To use an old analogy; a pile of ingredients could be described as 'a cake in the earliest stages of development'.
    The pile of ingredients is not analogous to the cake in its earliest stages of development, but rather to the sperm and egg. When they unite the "cake" or zygote (which is the organism) is brought into being.

    Quote Originally Posted by phildozer9121
    As I'm sure everyone would agree, it's quite the stretch to say that every single one of the cells that make us up is its individual organism, therefore since zygotes are almost identical to the somatic cells, I would argue that a zygote is most certainly NOT an organism.
    Of course every cell in the human body is not an individual organism, hence the fact that humans are multicellular organisms. However, a zygote is a new organism. Its DNA is NOT identical to the somatic cells of either the mother or the father. (the claim you made is untrue).
    Last edited by Lakryte; 01-29-10 at 02:40 AM.

  7. #147
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    Re: Is a single celled human zygote an 'organism'?

    Quote Originally Posted by phildozer9121 View Post
    Human children, living things, are created by two parts that are very much NOT alive (sperm and egg combine to grow into child). The first cell on earth must have been created by non living parts. I know it's difficult to wrap your head around something that is so microscopic and out of the ordinary realm of perception.
    I don't know how you got three people to thank you for a post saying human egg cells are not alive. They do react to stimuli, hardening the zona pellucida when a sperm enters. They do develop, from germ cells to oogonia to oocytes, etc. They are part of a system that maintains homeostasis. They can reproduce through fertilization or parthenogenesis.

    Your criteria for life is too specific. Living organisms can be made up of living parts that do not fit all of these criteria independently. Egg and sperm cells are both living parts of the human organism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    Of course every cell in the human body is not an individual organism, hence the fact that humans are multicellular organisms. However, a zygote is a new organism. Its DNA is NOT identical to the somatic cells of either the mother or the father. (the claim you made is untrue).
    It is true that new DNA begins after fertilization, during the first mitosis. But if you define an organism by DNA that makes identical twins a part of the same organism. So I don't think DNA can be the defining characteristic.
    Last edited by Tsunami; 01-29-10 at 05:52 AM.
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  8. #148
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    Re: Is a single celled human zygote an 'organism'?

    Quote Originally Posted by iangb View Post
    Contradiction?
    how's that a contradiction, a single human skin cell is still an organism, even if i is part of a greater whole, amoeba are still organisms, and they're only a single cell, it is because of the actions of individual cells that a human can function, you can respond to stimuli, because the sensory neurons in your skin fire electro-chemical signals to the nerve cells in your brain. it is individual cells working as a whole that hadle everything your body does.

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    rolleyes Re: Is a single celled human zygote an 'organism'?

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Have you missed everything I've said?
    I don't think so,... but it wouldn't hurt for you to provide a summary of what you said,... just so we are both clear on what you said.

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Haha, it'll take some time to find one that you'll except
    A-c-c-e-p-t.

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    Thumbs up Re: Is a single celled human zygote an 'organism'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    No debate is necessary. An organism is a living being that has (or can develop) the ability to act or function independently. A human zygote is a human organism at the earliest stages of development. It is not developing into an organism, it is an organism that is continuing to develop into its full self. Babies and children are developing, but that does not automatically imply they are not organisms.


    The pile of ingredients is not analogous to the cake in its earliest stages of development, but rather to the sperm and egg. When they unite the "cake" or zygote (which is the organism) is brought into being.


    Of course every cell in the human body is not an individual organism, hence the fact that humans are multicellular organisms. However, a zygote is a new organism. Its DNA is NOT identical to the somatic cells of either the mother or the father. (the claim you made is untrue).
    If you would be so kind as to post here and on all the other forums I frequent,... with posts as clear and concise and brilliant as this one is,... I would retire in peace.

    This was spot on and far better than I could ever dream of wording it!

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