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Should School computers have firewalls?

Should schools have firewalls


  • Total voters
    51
no doubt, those are additional factors, but that they also exist does not disprove my assertion

Your assertion is a rounding error to the major causes which are funding, class size, and home life.

actually, it is very much on topic. as i shared previously, my kids' work assignments and course work for their AP classes were web based. no access to the web, no opportunity to take the classes

You don't have to offer it online. It's not on topic, you think that all schools do it online? Furthermore, it shouldn't be offered online if it can't be made available to everyone. The thing is some people (more well to do and middle class) got computers and then we're like Oh look, AP is online now. But I took AP classes...they weren't online. It doesn't have to be done online. And you can't rightfully offer it online exclusive if you can't cover everyone. Make the class, take it there.

if your presention had any relationship to reality, then there would be no reason for any computer to reside within a school room. but we know that is not the case

There is very little reason for any computer to reside within a school room. Teachers can use it for lecture, but there really is not a need, especially if it's going to start exaserbating existing problems with proper education of inner city children.

my wife is a retired teacher. i was an active tutor and my job caused me to have reason to interact with school systems across the state. i will agree with you to this point. the smart kids are smarter than ever. but a generation or two back, there were as many slow kids as smart kids and the great majority were average students. it seems now the slow kids are in the majority

I teach and tutor at the University level. Kids are dumbasses. In part because they are taught to be reliant upon the computer. They can't think for themselves. It's all A, B, C, or D. They can't think about problems well anymore. Why should they learn when they can wiki anything instead. We're just making more stupid people. It's time to stop. A calculator is about as much as you need in high school for science and math. A word processor for written assignments; that's really it. And that's true for early University too. Unless you're pursuing a substantial degree like science or math.

that's great. obviously, while rural, they had two things that many other kids do not: parental support and economic sufficiency to cover their transportation needs. not so true for many of the underclass - those i have been speaking about

Library. If you're saying that people can't get their kids a bit later cause they went to the library after school; then it's a pretty ridiculous argument. In rural areas, you've got a car. Maybe you can't be running back and forth all day long, but a little planning and you don't have to. This whole "everyone needs a computer" thing is bull****. You're trying to say these poor people living in the rural area apparently have the money for a computer and internet connection but not to pick their kids up from town. And if they don't have the money for the computer and internet connection, then this is even more against YOUR argument. In that, we should be removing some of the online exclusivity that apparently has been placed into the system. It's unfair to the poor!

for some, you would be correct
but what about the many who are not lazy but are denied opportunities thru no fault of their own; does it not bother you that we are wasting their potential?

Who's potential? the one that can't afford the computer and thus can't take the AP course because you refuse to allow a class and will instead make it online only thus requiring people to have computers and internet? That sort of thing? Or my thing which says there's a library and everyone can use it and research well enough so long as the proper classes are made available to everyone such that one isn't necessarily dependent upon technology they can't afford?
 
Are computers necessary in the classroom?

50 years ago? No. Today? I think so... [Ikari]

The curriculum changes, and should do so appropriately as to adapt to the changing circumstances we live in. As a student, you wont be able to survive in college without any type of exposure to a word processor or to internet browsing. Hell, just to be able to conduct an advanced search on a database would get you pretty far.

IMO, the problem isn't that computers are making kids dumber or lazier. The kids just haven't been properly exposed to the academic uses of the computer, they haven't been trained correctly (teacher's fault I suppose). They go home and they play games or socialize on the computer, they don't really go on there for studying. A lot of my students tell me that once they get home, the first thing they do is check facebook or myspace. It's their routine.

The solution is not to force the student to learn without the computer, but instead make them aware and understand that the computer can be used efficiently in the academic sphere. There's been a lot of teachers who are beginning to integrate technology with their pedagogy, as have I.

One of my ideas, which I am most proud of :mrgreen:, is having my students create a short video for their projects. They should use video editing software, which I can show them where to download for free if they don't have any, usually the ones with Macs already have them. The students who post on YouTube definitely have them already. The video itself can come in the form of a short film, a news report, dramatization, or documentary style, or whatever they can come up with. It's quite amazing. One year I had a group of students who made a music video. It wouldn't surprise me (anymore) if one year I get a group of students who created an computer animated film.

The research that they do for this project usually turns out pretty good. My (non-scientific) explanation is that they were enjoying the work that they were doing and didn't mind the researching. Motivation I think is key. And computers can be used as a huge motivational boost. I think it's useless to fight against the use of computers, as it's going to be part of our lifestyles as the TV became part of our lifestyles in the 30s.
 
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Yes with taking off the internet blocker you will definately see who is and who isnt a productive student. with the blockwers it makes projects harder for students to do with 90% of things on google blocked and it is a disadvantage to students who dont have access at home or are not close to a library.

So, basically, you're a kid whining about school policy.

There's a reason why school policies are set by adults, and not kids.
 
So, basically, you're a kid whining about school policy.

There's a reason why school policies are set by adults, and not kids.

ok, enough suspense

what is that reason?
 
Because kids, in a general and broad sense, are more worried about immediete satisfaction and what will make them happy, then, with a weakened ability to have a long term view of situation due to lack of life experience and first hand scope. Children are also generally more prone to be impulsive about what they want then adults are and many have a general laxed care about the importance of school. Generally kids are going to be more likely to care about their enjoyment and entertainment moreso than perhaps their growth and development.

Parents, on the other hand, generally are more worried about the long term scope of things for their children and their well being more than their enjoyment. Their life experience and understanding of the scope that ones educational experience can have on their life tend to have a better grasp of its importance. They will tend to make rules that are more in line with creating the best atmosphere for intellectual growth and development then what brings the quickest instance gratification of enjoyment.

Is this an absolute truth or rule? Absolutely not. There are some parents that won't give a damn about their kids. There are some kids that absolutely are mature for their age. But on average the difference between the two is there.

I can tell you as my experience as a teacher if given a class of 30 kids a choice of what they want to do....play a game that, while has some benefits, is mostly useless in the development of the skills and abilities they're suposed to be learning or perform activities that directly practice the skills and abilities they're there to learn but are somewhat less immedietely entertaining and generally are harder....the majority of those kids would scream for the game each and every time.
 
my policy is: Rules are made to be broken or there wouldnt have to be rules.

And it's a childish "policy" which shows exactly why you need supervision. :roll:
 
If it's not obvious, there's not much point in saying it. I do hope you're not serious.

i am serious

you have not articulated a reason
 
The curriculum changes, and should do so appropriately as to adapt to the changing circumstances we live in.

I'll believe that when they start teaching numerical analysis and Fortran in high school as standard education.

As a student, you wont be able to survive in college without any type of exposure to a word processor or to internet browsing. Hell, just to be able to conduct an advanced search on a database would get you pretty far.

You can have a typing class, as for browsing the internet, if you need lessons in that do humanity a favor and kill yourself. Seriously, who isn't going to "know" how to do that? Only the kids who can't afford the computer and internet; and apparently we don't give a rat's ass about them anyway. **** those kids, teach to the one's who can afford the technology.

IMO, the problem isn't that computers are making kids dumber or lazier. The kids just haven't been properly exposed to the academic uses of the computer, they haven't been trained correctly (teacher's fault I suppose). They go home and they play games or socialize on the computer, they don't really go on there for studying. A lot of my students tell me that once they get home, the first thing they do is check facebook or myspace. It's their routine.

I think people start relying on the technology as a crutch. A computer can be a very potentially powerful tool which allows you to do things which cannot be done any other way. The computational power allows for a lot of numerical analysis and theory which just cannot be done by hand. But in the academic setting below University (hell probably in University as well), it has become basically the electronic version of Cliff Notes.

The solution is not to force the student to learn without the computer, but instead make them aware and understand that the computer can be used efficiently in the academic sphere. There's been a lot of teachers who are beginning to integrate technology with their pedagogy, as have I.

I mean, it really depends on what it's being used for. I can see applications for math, but those applications where it becomes necessary (like inverse problems) are very advanced and typically well above the standard high school student. You can teach programing like C++, Fortran, Visual Basic, etc. and that would be a good use of the technology too. But things like photoshop or whatever that's all pointless crap people can do for fun on their own time. The only place I could even see that as applicable would be maybe some art class.

One of my ideas, which I am most proud of :mrgreen:, is having my students create a short video for their projects. They should use video editing software, which I can show them where to download for free if they don't have any, usually the ones with Macs already have them. The students who post on YouTube definitely have them already. The video itself can come in the form of a short film, a news report, dramatization, or documentary style, or whatever they can come up with. It's quite amazing. One year I had a group of students who made a music video. It wouldn't surprise me (anymore) if one year I get a group of students who created an computer animated film.

Things kinda like that have been around for a long time. I remember in high school doing video projects. It's not like it taught me to operate a video camera, but it was mostly stuff to do for fun in a class. I'm not sure if it's really teaching the true applications for the technology.

The research that they do for this project usually turns out pretty good. My (non-scientific) explanation is that they were enjoying the work that they were doing and didn't mind the researching. Motivation I think is key. And computers can be used as a huge motivational boost. I think it's useless to fight against the use of computers, as it's going to be part of our lifestyles as the TV became part of our lifestyles in the 30s.

But it typically comes down to citing wikipedia. Which does not behoove anyone. People need to learn that wikipedia isn't a valid source. Yes, the computer can help in looking up articles and books; but you'll have to read those too. Not copy and past out of some googled thing.

I've seen the implementation of a lot of computer stuff on the University level. There is a lot of online homework for lower level physics classes; but that's usually done as a convenience for the professor. And even then, kids just tend to cheat. I think that's what's really be taught with a lot of the technology.
 
Until the senior year, I don't think that kids have any need to be exposed to computers at all, except possibly for serious students in a technical course of study.

I also don't approve of cooks. janitors or sports programs in schools.


Call me old fashioned, although one would be better advized to call me Milord.

In todays world Computers are a necessity. I think there should be Firewalls though. No cooks or Janitors??? thats a bit extreme although sports in school or college is unnecessary.
 
i am serious

you have not articulated a reason

:roll: Because adults have experience in the world that children do not.

Do you propose letting the kids decide all school policy? If not, why not?
 
I'll believe that when they start teaching numerical analysis and Fortran in high school as standard education.

What change in circumstances necessitate the teaching of this??:confused: Does it have the same impact on social and cultural change as did the personal computer?

You can have a typing class, as for browsing the internet, if you need lessons in that do humanity a favor and kill yourself. Seriously, who isn't going to "know" how to do that? Only the kids who can't afford the computer and internet; and apparently we don't give a rat's ass about them anyway. **** those kids, teach to the one's who can afford the technology.

I speak from experience. Many students who use Google and Yahoo to search and browse have only a rudimentary understanding of how a search engine works. Narrowing down their search, a skill in researching, is absolutely important. And because it is a skill, training is needed (or at least that's what I believe).

I think people start relying on the technology as a crutch. A computer can be a very potentially powerful tool which allows you to do things which cannot be done any other way. The computational power allows for a lot of numerical analysis and theory which just cannot be done by hand. But in the academic setting below University (hell probably in University as well), it has become basically the electronic version of Cliff Notes.

That it has, there's no denying that. But that's what technology does...it makes things more efficient. It's always going to be a tool to quickly access information.

I mean, it really depends on what it's being used for. I can see applications for math, but those applications where it becomes necessary (like inverse problems) are very advanced and typically well above the standard high school student. You can teach programing like C++, Fortran, Visual Basic, etc. and that would be a good use of the technology too. But things like photoshop or whatever that's all pointless crap people can do for fun on their own time. The only place I could even see that as applicable would be maybe some art class.

I've allowed my students to use photoshop to (re)create some propaganda pieces in my history classes. They use powerpoint to showcase them. The benefits? Students don't need craft supplies. A little bit cheaper on the budget, since I provide the projector and powerpoint. They can use their own or the school's lab photoshop program.

Things kinda like that have been around for a long time. I remember in high school doing video projects. It's not like it taught me to operate a video camera, but it was mostly stuff to do for fun in a class. I'm not sure if it's really teaching the true applications for the technology.

Well, I grade on a rubric. They get scored on: creativity, accuracy, presentation, and energy/effort.

And I'm not teaching they how to make a short film, that wasn't the goal. That was just a means to an end, which was to show me that they learned the history lesson. They don't need to know how to operate a camera or how to do video editing. But you know what? Many students DO know how to do video editing (especially on YouTube) and many students record stuff with their phones and cameras. I'm not teaching them how to use that stuff, I'm directing their "expertise" towards my lessons. I'm using the skills they already have to get new skills.

But it typically comes down to citing wikipedia. Which does not behoove anyone. People need to learn that wikipedia isn't a valid source. Yes, the computer can help in looking up articles and books; but you'll have to read those too. Not copy and past out of some googled thing.

I've seen the implementation of a lot of computer stuff on the University level. There is a lot of online homework for lower level physics classes; but that's usually done as a convenience for the professor. And even then, kids just tend to cheat. I think that's what's really be taught with a lot of the technology.

In my line of work, after a few years, you develop an eye for plagiarism. If you get to know your students, know their habits, know their limits, you'll know the difference between authentic improvement and plagiarism. Though of course I don't expect to catch everyone all the time.

The problem with this is that teachers need to do this with their 160+ kids. But what are you going to do, right?
 
As an aside...the poll says there are 5 votes for "No" but I only see 3 names. Ikari can you run the numbers on Fortran and see if you can get an explanation? :mrgreen:
 
As an aside...the poll says there are 5 votes for "No" but I only see 3 names. Ikari can you run the numbers on Fortran and see if you can get an explanation? :mrgreen:

It doesn't take a Fortran program to say that people can vote when not logged in. In fact, even a simple experiment of logging out, clicking on this thread, and seeing if you can vote again would be simple enough to ferret out your answer. Did you really need me to spell it out for you?
 
It doesn't take a Fortran program to say that people can vote when not logged in. In fact, even a simple experiment of logging out, clicking on this thread, and seeing if you can vote again would be simple enough to ferret out your answer. Did you really need me to spell it out for you?

Lighten up man, it was a joke....:doh
 
I grew up alone i supervise myself thanks very much. I don't need a babysitter to tell me that there are morons on the internet ^^

Moderator's Warning:
You certainly seem to need supervision. In two days this is now the SECOND warning you have received for making insulting comments. You want to break rules? Keep this in mind. There will be consequences. Stop this behavior.
 
I think the schools that use firewalls are to restrictive. i mean they even block images depending from the site. thats what i produce proxy sites for schools.
So are you doing this during lunch at school?
 
I think firewalls in schools is a good and necessary idea. A school is a place for education, not facebook, myspace, or porn. Honestly, having teenagers with unrestricted to the internet would only lead to bad things. Our educational system is already bad enough, and the blame lies partially with the students and not just the establishments. Firewalls are a necessary thing in my opinion.
 
I think the biggest issue is with how you implement the filtering, and not with the filtering itself.
 
my policy is: Rules are made to be broken or there wouldnt have to be rules.

And you expect teachers and principal let alone any adult to trust you kids on the internet at school with that philosophy? I sure hope that you were not saying that as you were making your case to the teachers and principal to ease the firewall/filtering restrictions. Thats like saying I am going to shoot my neighbor while at the gun store and then wondering why the clerk refuses to sell you a fire arm and or some ammunition.
 
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