View Poll Results: Should schools have firewalls

Voters
65. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    50 76.92%
  • No

    12 18.46%
  • I don't care

    3 4.62%
Page 5 of 14 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 134

Thread: Should School computers have firewalls?

  1. #41
    long standing member
    justabubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    36,149

    Re: Should School computers have firewalls?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Absolutely there should be firewalls at schools.

    Schools are there for learning. They're not there for web surfing, for chatting, for social networking, for blogging, for foruming, or anything else of the sort. Does a firewall, generally one done poorly, potentially block educational material? Sure. However the educational material it blocks is generally rather small, especially compared to the material it leaves open AND when compared to the vast amount of non-educational things it manages to block.

    For every kid that could use the internet responsably during school there's 9 who would be using the lack of firewall for facebook, twitter, myspace, flash games, gossip sites, etc.

    Here'd be my question since you're using doing proxy stuff. The kids that use your proxy...do they use it to go to "educational" sites which are blocked by the firewall primarily, or are they using it to go to non-educational sites that are blocked?

    If the primary thing they're doing is the latter, then your argument at the beginning of this about how its keeping them from some educational material is worthless because its nothing but a front to keep from seeming like a very stereotypical high schooler going "grr, the mean school isn't letting me screw off".

    Not to mention, from the geeky side of me, it gives early practice to the enterprising Comp Sci students to learn how to use proxies.

    I was one of those kids that didn't like the mean school letting me screw off, especially when I had an elective in my senior year as a "library assistant" which really translated to "sit in the library for an hour doing whatever you want". So, learned about proxies, learned how to connect to proxies, got to play a MUD every day during school. Knowledge came in useful later for educational purposes in college

    But in a general sense...yes, high school computers should have firewalls.
    your argument presumes that the student is going to exercise one of two options. screw off on the internet or use that same time dilligently pursuing studies by other non-web means for educational purposes
    that is like presuming the slack worker on a job is going to be doing constructive things if you have denied them internet access on the job
    this is an old school approach of evaluating process, rather than product
    if the student screws off, then the student's grades will reflect that inefficient study/work habit
    similarly, if the weak employee screws up, that should be reflected in their performance evaluation - based on accomplishment, not process used to (or not to) attain it
    instituting a school nanny and a work nanny will not elevate the weak student/employee because you have denied them wide internet access. instead, you will have dampened the richness of the school/work experience for the self-motivated student/employee
    just another stride in our race to the bottom
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  2. #42
    Advisor Iwa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Illinois. I wish i lived in a Socialist country.
    Last Seen
    04-25-11 @ 04:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    443

    Re: Should School computers have firewalls?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    your argument presumes that the student is going to exercise one of two options. screw off on the internet or use that same time dilligently pursuing studies by other non-web means for educational purposes
    that is like presuming the slack worker on a job is going to be doing constructive things if you have denied them internet access on the job
    this is an old school approach of evaluating process, rather than product
    if the student screws off, then the student's grades will reflect that inefficient study/work habit
    similarly, if the weak employee screws up, that should be reflected in their performance evaluation - based on accomplishment, not process used to (or not to) attain it
    instituting a school nanny and a work nanny will not elevate the weak student/employee because you have denied them wide internet access. instead, you will have dampened the richness of the school/work experience for the self-motivated student/employee
    just another stride in our race to the bottom
    Yes with taking off the internet blocker you will definately see who is and who isnt a productive student. with the blockwers it makes projects harder for students to do with 90% of things on google blocked and it is a disadvantage to students who dont have access at home or are not close to a library.
    It's not rape if you scream "SURPRISE" first.

  3. #43
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,124

    Re: Should School computers have firewalls?

    Quote Originally Posted by Iwa View Post
    Yes with taking off the internet blocker you will definately see who is and who isnt a productive student. with the blockwers it makes projects harder for students to do with 90% of things on google blocked and it is a disadvantage to students who dont have access at home or are not close to a library.
    Go to the library. Why does everything ****ing have to be handed to people? For the love of **** people, get off your asses and do something. They're not close to a library? Do they have no parents? No legs? No buses? How the hell is it that blocking the internet stops students from doing their projects? It stops them from wasting time on Facebook and other stupid things, but that's about it. There's all sorts of resources out there, students these days are not doing anything so advanced that it requires a computer. You're doing the same crap all of us did when we were in high school, and many of us did so without the aid of the internet.

    Read a f'n book instead of ripping of Wikipedia.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  4. #44
    long standing member
    justabubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    36,149

    Re: Should School computers have firewalls?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Go to the library. Why does everything ****ing have to be handed to people? For the love of **** people, get off your asses and do something. They're not close to a library? Do they have no parents? No legs? No buses? How the hell is it that blocking the internet stops students from doing their projects? It stops them from wasting time on Facebook and other stupid things, but that's about it. There's all sorts of resources out there, students these days are not doing anything so advanced that it requires a computer. You're doing the same crap all of us did when we were in high school, and many of us did so without the aid of the internet.

    Read a f'n book instead of ripping of Wikipedia.
    there are LOTS of students who have no access to a computer, or the internet at home
    those in that modest economic circumstance often live in rural locations without personal transportation
    yet they are competing in school against the other students who have the good fortune to have access to the web
    my kids' AP tests were taken on the net. most of their assignments were located there, too. then we wonder why those of the lower socio-economic rung are not taking the higher level courses
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  5. #45
    Traditional
    hiswoman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Cypress, TX
    Last Seen
    04-04-13 @ 05:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    3,051
    Blog Entries
    10

    Re: Should School computers have firewalls?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Absolutely there should be firewalls at schools.

    Schools are there for learning. They're not there for web surfing, for chatting, for social networking, for blogging, for foruming, or anything else of the sort. Does a firewall, generally one done poorly, potentially block educational material? Sure. However the educational material it blocks is generally rather small, especially compared to the material it leaves open AND when compared to the vast amount of non-educational things it manages to block.

    For every kid that could use the internet responsably during school there's 9 who would be using the lack of firewall for facebook, twitter, myspace, flash games, gossip sites, etc.

    Here'd be my question since you're using doing proxy stuff. The kids that use your proxy...do they use it to go to "educational" sites which are blocked by the firewall primarily, or are they using it to go to non-educational sites that are blocked?

    If the primary thing they're doing is the latter, then your argument at the beginning of this about how its keeping them from some educational material is worthless because its nothing but a front to keep from seeming like a very stereotypical high schooler going "grr, the mean school isn't letting me screw off".

    Not to mention, from the geeky side of me, it gives early practice to the enterprising Comp Sci students to learn how to use proxies.

    I was one of those kids that didn't like the mean school letting me screw off, especially when I had an elective in my senior year as a "library assistant" which really translated to "sit in the library for an hour doing whatever you want". So, learned about proxies, learned how to connect to proxies, got to play a MUD every day during school. Knowledge came in useful later for educational purposes in college

    But in a general sense...yes, high school computers should have firewalls.
    I have to disagree with you here. My son is in the 11th grade and was given a laptop for the year along with all his classmates (some new program they're trying out where they submit class assignments from moodle to the teacher). That thing has so many filters, blocks, firewalls, etc, that if he needs to do any serious research, I just let him use my computer (with my supervision, of course).

    I think they should have firewalls, but they should be realistic about how they're applied, as someone mentioned earlier. Overall, I do agree with the use of technology like what my son's school is doing. It's important for kids to learn how to submit assignments online if they're going to manage in college because so many instructors require their students to do exactly that.




    Gestures, in love, are incomparably more attractive, effective and valuable than words.
    ~ Francois Rabelais

  6. #46
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,124

    Re: Should School computers have firewalls?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    there are LOTS of students who have no access to a computer, or the internet at home
    those in that modest economic circumstance often live in rural locations without personal transportation
    yet they are competing in school against the other students who have the good fortune to have access to the web
    my kids' AP tests were taken on the net. most of their assignments were located there, too. then we wonder why those of the lower socio-economic rung are not taking the higher level courses
    The lower levels economic blocks don't take higher level courses for more serious reasons than just internet connection. If that was their only problem, it could be easily worked out. Much of it has more to do with funding and class size and home life than merely a computer. All public schools should receive equal funding. This crap where it's funded by property tax or whatever so that suburbia gets ridiculous schools while kids in the inner city have nothing needs to stop. Pool the money, divide it up upon population.

    Everything you just bitched about here is not valid as none of it has to be done on computers. It doesn't make things better, it doesn't teach better, it doesn't convey information easier, the complication and sophistication of work hasn't increased. Kids are probably dumber now then at any other point, if the incoming Freshmen are any indication. As for the no transportation thing...I grew up in Illinois, middle of the State. I know lots of people who lived far off on farms. Guess what...they had to *gasp* plan ahead. My HS buddies had to do that, their parents accommodated since it was for school work.

    In the end, I think so much of this just comes down to sheer laziness. Nothing else.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #47
    long standing member
    justabubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    36,149

    Re: Should School computers have firewalls?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The lower levels economic blocks don't take higher level courses for more serious reasons than just internet connection.
    that is true. but it is unfortunate that the talented kid, who could stretch into AP classes is denied that only because (s)he is not able to do the web assignments since they haven't the tools to work with

    If that was their only problem, it could be easily worked out.
    how do you know. if you are correct, then my point would be in error, because then every kid with the talent but not the means would then be in AP or IB settings, because "something" would have been worked out. unfortunately, my assessment is accurate

    Much of it has more to do with funding and class size and home life than merely a computer.
    no doubt, those are additional factors, but that they also exist does not disprove my assertion

    All public schools should receive equal funding. This crap where it's funded by property tax or whatever so that suburbia gets ridiculous schools while kids in the inner city have nothing needs to stop. Pool the money, divide it up upon population.
    i agree. but that is not on topic

    Everything you just bitched about here is not valid as none of it has to be done on computers.
    actually, it is very much on topic. as i shared previously, my kids' work assignments and course work for their AP classes were web based. no access to the web, no opportunity to take the classes

    It doesn't make things better, it doesn't teach better, it doesn't convey information easier, the complication and sophistication of work hasn't increased.
    if your presention had any relationship to reality, then there would be no reason for any computer to reside within a school room. but we know that is not the case

    Kids are probably dumber now then at any other point, if the incoming Freshmen are any indication.
    my wife is a retired teacher. i was an active tutor and my job caused me to have reason to interact with school systems across the state. i will agree with you to this point. the smart kids are smarter than ever. but a generation or two back, there were as many slow kids as smart kids and the great majority were average students. it seems now the slow kids are in the majority

    As for the no transportation thing...I grew up in Illinois, middle of the State. I know lots of people who lived far off on farms. Guess what...they had to *gasp* plan ahead. My HS buddies had to do that, their parents accommodated since it was for school work.
    that's great. obviously, while rural, they had two things that many other kids do not: parental support and economic sufficiency to cover their transportation needs. not so true for many of the underclass - those i have been speaking about

    In the end, I think so much of this just comes down to sheer laziness. Nothing else.
    for some, you would be correct
    but what about the many who are not lazy but are denied opportunities thru no fault of their own; does it not bother you that we are wasting their potential?
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  8. #48
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,998

    Re: Should School computers have firewalls?

    Quote Originally Posted by hiswoman View Post
    I have to disagree with you here. My son is in the 11th grade and was given a laptop for the year along with all his classmates (some new program they're trying out where they submit class assignments from moodle to the teacher). That thing has so many filters, blocks, firewalls, etc, that if he needs to do any serious research, I just let him use my computer (with my supervision, of course).
    Honestly this sounds like an issue with how strict their making the firewall, not having a firewall.

    Example, it'd be idotic and bad to put a 5 mile per hour speed limit on a road that probably should be a 35 mph limit.

    That said, the "fix" to this is not to remove the speed limit all together.

  9. #49
    Advisor Iwa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Illinois. I wish i lived in a Socialist country.
    Last Seen
    04-25-11 @ 04:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    443

    Re: Should School computers have firewalls?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Go to the library. Why does everything ****ing have to be handed to people? For the love of **** people, get off your asses and do something. They're not close to a library? Do they have no parents? No legs? No buses? How the hell is it that blocking the internet stops students from doing their projects? It stops them from wasting time on Facebook and other stupid things, but that's about it. There's all sorts of resources out there, students these days are not doing anything so advanced that it requires a computer. You're doing the same crap all of us did when we were in high school, and many of us did so without the aid of the internet.

    Read a f'n book instead of ripping of Wikipedia.
    haha who reads anymore? i havent read unless i HAD to in 4 years my vocabulary was the level of a senior when i was in 5th grade im not meaning to boast but i used to read alot and i dont find a use for it anymore. reading wasted alot of my life.
    It's not rape if you scream "SURPRISE" first.

  10. #50
    Advisor Iwa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Illinois. I wish i lived in a Socialist country.
    Last Seen
    04-25-11 @ 04:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    443

    Re: Should School computers have firewalls?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    that is true. but it is unfortunate that the talented kid, who could stretch into AP classes is denied that only because (s)he is not able to do the web assignments since they haven't the tools to work with


    how do you know. if you are correct, then my point would be in error, because then every kid with the talent but not the means would then be in AP or IB settings, because "something" would have been worked out. unfortunately, my assessment is accurate


    no doubt, those are additional factors, but that they also exist does not disprove my assertion


    i agree. but that is not on topic


    actually, it is very much on topic. as i shared previously, my kids' work assignments and course work for their AP classes were web based. no access to the web, no opportunity to take the classes


    if your presention had any relationship to reality, then there would be no reason for any computer to reside within a school room. but we know that is not the case


    my wife is a retired teacher. i was an active tutor and my job caused me to have reason to interact with school systems across the state. i will agree with you to this point. the smart kids are smarter than ever. but a generation or two back, there were as many slow kids as smart kids and the great majority were average students. it seems now the slow kids are in the majority


    that's great. obviously, while rural, they had two things that many other kids do not: parental support and economic sufficiency to cover their transportation needs. not so true for many of the underclass - those i have been speaking about


    for some, you would be correct
    but what about the many who are not lazy but are denied opportunities thru no fault of their own; does it not bother you that we are wasting their potential?
    wow you just tore that post apart O M G. congos to you. remind me not to ever disagree with you.
    It's not rape if you scream "SURPRISE" first.

Page 5 of 14 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •