View Poll Results: Do you have a conceal and carry permit?

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  • Yes I do

    21 29.17%
  • No I do not

    38 52.78%
  • I don't have one yet, but I'm working on it

    9 12.50%
  • I don't understand the question - can you type slower?

    4 5.56%
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Thread: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

  1. #391
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    Re: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Sane View Post
    Its hard not to throw insults when my points are either missed, ignored, or inflated beyond reason. As stated, its my "personal" feelings based both on experience (which I've been berated for being only 22) and general reasoning, specifically the state training guidelines I had to take to carry a gun as part of my employment.

    Sheesh, I don't think everyone should carry, and I will second guess anyone who feels the need to carry, and to go beyond that its perfectly in my right to challenge anyone who chooses to carry (check out one of those first amendment deals). I suppose my confrontational style of debate can be taken as disrespect, so be it. If I question someone as to why they carry, and all it does is make them more resolute in their choice, well at least I know how serious they're taking it.


    So what can we take from this?

    1. you admit to insulting people.

    2. you think that "1st amendment deals" apply only to you.



    I have constantly run Drill after Drill, where having a gun against an armed attacker just gets you killed. I've trained with a FATS. You guys put too much into the notion, that having a gun Will save your life, or that the world would be a safer place if everyone was armed, I disagree.


    are you seriously suggesting you can disarm someone with a gun before they can shoot you? seriously?



    As for the Aikido comment, the thread starter is a woman in her 40s, who's stated multiple times she works in an elementary school. Depending on the state even with a Concealed Carry Permit (or license) she probably can't carry it into work, or leave it in a car parked on school property. That for some people alone would rule out having a gun 5x a week. Now onto aikido, as an Introduction into martial arts, can you think of something better? (Karate? ROFLMAO) I don't expect someone who is new to martial arts to jump right into a Krav Maga course.

    yes, I can. tons of things. Aikido is not an effective martial art. And I am telling you this as a shodan, under Yamada Sensei, from the NY Aikikai. USAF. I stopped training Aikido seriously when I came to the realization that most aikidoka are self delusional about the practicality of thier art.... Oh i still practice it with some friends time to time, because it is fun at the higher levels, but i am not deluded into thinking its an effective art....

    Collusive fakery does not translate into effective self defense.
    Last edited by ReverendHellh0und; 02-06-10 at 08:30 AM.
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  2. #392
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    Re: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    So what can we take from this?

    1. you admit to insulting people.

    2. you think that "1st amendment deals" apply only to you.
    In other threads he has said that he is working his way towards becoming a Police officer. Perhaps he has an issue with the idea of ordinary citizens possessing the same "power" (ie being armed) as he would as a cop. He wouldn't be the first to think that way... this is just speculation on my part though.






    are you seriously suggesting you can disarm someone with a gun before they can shoot you? seriously?
    It can be done, Rev. I do happen to know one guy who pulled it off successfully. I teach it in some of my self-protection classes as a last-ditch desperation option. However it isn't remotely as simon-simple as many people like to paint it : "oh, that hardened criminal will just snatch your gun away from you!" --- uh, not so much, this takes a lot of training and some luck, OR an enormous amount of luck and a very incompetent opponent.

    It also depends on the guy holding the gun. There are methods I also teach of handling extreme-close-quarters shooting problems using the "retention position" which makes it extremely hard for the other guy to disarm or muzzle-avert you. (credits to my instructor, I didn't invent it.)

    Anyway, as a primary defense option it isn't such a hot idea. I prefer being armed, and for the record I know what I'm talking about --- I've defended myself both armed and unarmed before.





    yes, I can. tons of things. Aikido is not an effective martial art. And I am telling you this as a shodan, under Yamada Sensei, from the NY Aikikai. USAF. I stopped training Aikido seriously when I came to the realization that most aikidoka are self delusional about the practicality of thier art.... Oh i still practice it with some friends time to time, because it is fun at the higher levels, but i am not deluded into thinking its an effective art....

    Collusive fakery does not translate into effective self defense.
    Well, there's Aikido and there's Aikido. Some forms are more real-world oriented than others. Some instructors are more real-world oriented than other instructors, even within the same "style". I trained in a self-defense oriented form of Aikido for the better part of a decade, and found it useful as an LEO... but you have to bear in mind that my instructor was also a cop with plenty of real-world experience.

    From what I've seen a majority of Aiki schools do not practice in a manner that would give their techniques utility against anyone other than Joe Schmuck the John-Wayne-roundhouse-puncher... but there are exceptions.

    Granted, there are a lot of martial arts I'd recommend to a newbie looking for something street-effective long before I'd recommend a "generic" Aiki school....MMA, Brazillian 'jitsu, Vale Tudo, Muay Thai, boxing/kickboxing, etc.


    But yeah, I suspect Ed doesn't have too much real world experience with serious violence. His suggestions are not very practical on the whole.

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  3. #393
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    Re: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    In other threads he has said that he is working his way towards becoming a Police officer. Perhaps he has an issue with the idea of ordinary citizens possessing the same "power" (ie being armed) as he would as a cop. He wouldn't be the first to think that way... this is just speculation on my part though.

    I agree with this assesment.



    It can be done, Rev. I do happen to know one guy who pulled it off successfully. I teach it in some of my self-protection classes as a last-ditch desperation option. However it isn't remotely as simon-simple as many people like to paint it : "oh, that hardened criminal will just snatch your gun away from you!" --- uh, not so much, this takes a lot of training and some luck, OR an enormous amount of luck and a very incompetent opponent.

    I used to teach it all the time, different sorts of disarms, etc..... I also teach the reality of it..... Take a paintball gun. Disarm the person pointing the paintball gun before he shoots you....


    99 out of 100 times.... you got shot....


    Yes there is always a possibility it would work, but in reality. Usually imo its foolish. Give em your wallet already.



    It also depends on the guy holding the gun. There are methods I also teach of handling extreme-close-quarters shooting problems using the "retention position" which makes it extremely hard for the other guy to disarm or muzzle-avert you. (credits to my instructor, I didn't invent it.)

    +1 fully know what you mean. in aikido, that's an example of proper Mai-ai.




    Anyway, as a primary defense option it isn't such a hot idea. I prefer being armed, and for the record I know what I'm talking about --- I've defended myself both armed and unarmed before.

    +1



    Well, there's Aikido and there's Aikido. Some forms are more real-world oriented than others. Some instructors are more real-world oriented than other instructors, even within the same "style". I trained in a self-defense oriented form of Aikido for the better part of a decade, and found it useful as an LEO... but you have to bear in mind that my instructor was also a cop with plenty of real-world experience.

    Ive trained yosinkan, akikai, tawama style. Chiba, ikeda, saotome, yamada, and on and on.... If you found a real world oriented Aikido, its far removed from the Aikido taught by hobu dojo (been there as well. )


    That said, let me correct my self, it works great for defending oneself against charging drunks.


    Boxers, not so much as there is no momentum to deal with.


    From what I've seen a majority of Aiki schools do not practice in a manner that would give their techniques utility against anyone other than Joe Schmuck the John-Wayne-roundhouse-puncher... but there are exceptions.

    exactly, not realistic attacks, too much reliance on momentum of an unlikley scenario.


    Granted, there are a lot of martial arts I'd recommend to a newbie looking for something street-effective long before I'd recommend a "generic" Aiki school....MMA, Brazillian 'jitsu, Vale Tudo, Muay Thai, boxing/kickboxing, etc.


    This part I agree. As you can tell, I am less than impressed with most "aiki" style teachings as a practical self defense. It has uses, and I do benefit from my years of doing it. But it was the application of other martial arts such as BJJ and boxing that made whatever "aiki" style movements and mind set a reality.... my experience anyway...




    But yeah, I suspect Ed doesn't have too much real world experience with serious violence. His suggestions are not very practical on the whole.


    100% agree....


    you gotta tell me more about your "aikido" school. While I will trash Aikido relentlessly, I do so from a position of experience, and would love to find a system that proves me wrong.... (I put a lot of years into it. )
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  4. #394
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    Re: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post

    I used to teach it all the time, different sorts of disarms, etc..... I also teach the reality of it..... Take a paintball gun. Disarm the person pointing the paintball gun before he shoots you....


    99 out of 100 times.... you got shot....


    Yes there is always a possibility it would work, but in reality. Usually imo its foolish. Give em your wallet already.

    +1 fully know what you mean. in aikido, that's an example of proper Mai-ai.
    Yeah, it depends. I've done it in training vs simunition guns. If someone is dumb enough to press the gun to your head or body (and there are lots of dumb crooks, let's admit) a disarm can be done many times. Most commonly it is effective if the person is not intent on shooting you immediately; that is, they want to intimidate/rob you, or take you off somewhere private before killing you. Against someone who intends to shoot you at once, it is much more iffy.

    I have done it at ranges of up to 20' against a guy reaching for a holstered weapon, similar to the Tueller drill. My success ran about 90%. Granted a well-trained man could stop me if he was ready for it, but most don't expect you to charge them when they're reaching for a pistol.

    On the whole though, I'd prefer diving for cover and then drawing my own pistol.



    Ive trained yosinkan, akikai, tawama style. Chiba, ikeda, saotome, yamada, and on and on.... If you found a real world oriented Aikido, its far removed from the Aikido taught by hobu dojo (been there as well. )

    That said, let me correct my self, it works great for defending oneself against charging drunks.

    Boxers, not so much as there is no momentum to deal with.
    exactly, not realistic attacks, too much reliance on momentum of an unlikley scenario.
    Against an opponent like a boxer, who strikes from a balanced position and does not overextend, you have to use "aggressive aikido" and enter with a feint or strike, either "blending" to his flank and going for something strong like an armbar, or clinching and going for a hip throw or similar. Since you can't use his momentum and overextension, you have to "create a circle" with a methodology that looks more like judo or Braz-Jits than like classical Aiki. Again, what my instructor taught was called Aikido but the practical side of training didn't look much like what O-Sensei taught. Nor was their anything very pacifistic in the "philosopy".





    This part I agree. As you can tell, I am less than impressed with most "aiki" style teachings as a practical self defense. It has uses, and I do benefit from my years of doing it. But it was the application of other martial arts such as BJJ and boxing that made whatever "aiki" style movements and mind set a reality.... my experience anyway...
    Agreed. I also trained in Karate, did some boxing/kickboxing and wrestling, a little Philipino knifework, etc. That and the time I spent in LE gave me some perspective on ways to use my Aiki skills ITRW.



    you gotta tell me more about your "aikido" school. While I will trash Aikido relentlessly, I do so from a position of experience, and would love to find a system that proves me wrong.... (I put a lot of years into it. )
    I'll PM you. There's a reason why I don't want to mention my instructor by name on the open forum, and the system itself is a small one with only a handful of schools in the US.

    Basically it was about 50% classical Aikido technique, but with a lot more "ooph", more pain, and more energy than you see in most Hombu-based Aiki. The other 50% was focused on "how do you actually USE this stuff in the street?" We practiced against forceful attacks, fast attacks, combinations, grabs and takedowns that you actually see in bar-brawls, weapons, etc. We commonly used strikes as a method of stunning the opponent before finishing him with a joint-break or a throw-and-lock. We also did "groundfighting" before groundfighting was "cool".

    It drew from Aiki, Judo, Karate, Jujitsu, kickboxing and other styles, rather than being "pure Aiki", also. In a sense it was a "mixed martial art" of sorts back before MMA was "cool".

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