View Poll Results: Do you have a conceal and carry permit?

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Thread: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

  1. #351
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    Re: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

    I am quite aware that a knife is a lethal weapon, used properly an attacker won't see, they will feel it. Sometimes, however it makes for a good distraction.

    As for Aikido, its a good jumping point for dipping into Martial Arts, I have seen it used effectively against multiple attackers. The key is to allow your escape, in some situations that is the only safe option.

    Guns, can be effective, you also have to the weigh the risks/liabilities of the situation and above all, be willing to carry out your threat. Shooting a gun at a range, and pointing it at a living breathing person (regardless of the threat they pose) are two separate issues.

    Finally my point is, and I maintain, for most people its a liability issue. If an Unarmed mugger demands your purse, and you pull a gun, in my state you would be Arrested. The mugger would have every right to sue you.

    Unless there is a direct threat, or a real fear (i.e. work in the bad part of town), carrying concealed, is kinda dumb. Whens the last time any of you had a gun put to there face? I've put myself in those situations, a gun on my end would just have escalated the whole mess.

    As for the poster with the .45 comment. If a perp has a weapon drawn on me, and mines in my holster concealed, what are the chances he's going to let me pull, sight and fire? Unlikely.

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    Re: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Sane View Post
    I am quite aware that a knife is a lethal weapon, used properly an attacker won't see, they will feel it. Sometimes, however it makes for a good distraction.

    As for Aikido, its a good jumping point for dipping into Martial Arts, I have seen it used effectively against multiple attackers. The key is to allow your escape, in some situations that is the only safe option.

    Guns, can be effective, you also have to the weigh the risks/liabilities of the situation and above all, be willing to carry out your threat. Shooting a gun at a range, and pointing it at a living breathing person (regardless of the threat they pose) are two separate issues.

    Finally my point is, and I maintain, for most people its a liability issue. If an Unarmed mugger demands your purse, and you pull a gun, in my state you would be Arrested. The mugger would have every right to sue you.

    Unless there is a direct threat, or a real fear (i.e. work in the bad part of town), carrying concealed, is kinda dumb. Whens the last time any of you had a gun put to there face? I've put myself in those situations, a gun on my end would just have escalated the whole mess.

    As for the poster with the .45 comment. If a perp has a weapon drawn on me, and mines in my holster concealed, what are the chances he's going to let me pull, sight and fire? Unlikely.

    I shot an unarmed mugger one time-he and his partner jumped me in an alley and started beating on me when I put a 9mm through his stomach, blowing out his rectum. I wasn't even arrested.



  3. #353
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    Re: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I shot an unarmed mugger one time-he and his partner jumped me in an alley and started beating on me when I put a 9mm through his stomach, blowing out his rectum. I wasn't even arrested.
    Beating on you, upgrades it to Felony Assault, reasonable fear for your life, weapons use is justified.

    I am an Armed Security Guard, I'm quite aware (state licensed) of when you can and can't pull a gun. I've seen people who have guns, reach for them before the situation played out far enough for them to legally draw. They get arrested and processed.

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    Re: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Sane View Post
    Beating on you, upgrades it to Felony Assault, reasonable fear for your life, weapons use is justified.

    I am an Armed Security Guard, I'm quite aware (state licensed) of when you can and can't pull a gun. I've seen people who have guns, reach for them before the situation played out far enough for them to legally draw. They get arrested and processed.
    agreed, you have to have reasonable fear of imminent bodily harm



  5. #355
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    Re: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Sane View Post
    I am quite aware that a knife is a lethal weapon, used properly an attacker won't see, they will feel it. Sometimes, however it makes for a good distraction.

    As for Aikido, its a good jumping point for dipping into Martial Arts, I have seen it used effectively against multiple attackers. The key is to allow your escape, in some situations that is the only safe option.

    Guns, can be effective, you also have to the weigh the risks/liabilities of the situation and above all, be willing to carry out your threat. Shooting a gun at a range, and pointing it at a living breathing person (regardless of the threat they pose) are two separate issues.
    Yes, if you're going to carry, then you need to make up your mind that you'll use it... personally I don't see this as a huge issue. If you don't think you'd pull the trigger, don't carry.

    Finally my point is, and I maintain, for most people its a liability issue. If an Unarmed mugger demands your purse, and you pull a gun, in my state you would be Arrested. The mugger would have every right to sue you.
    I don't know what state you live in, but I'm glad I don't live there.
    In my state, as in most to my knowlege, the totality of circumstances is considered. If the victim is a 70yo woman and the unarmed mugger is a healthy 20yo male, she would likely be held justified. If the victim was an average size man and the mugger was a 6'6" 300 lb monster, ditto.
    In my state, a mugger suing his victim would be laughed out of court.


    Unless there is a direct threat, or a real fear (i.e. work in the bad part of town), carrying concealed, is kinda dumb.
    Thank you so much for calling millions of people who have jumped through the legal hoops, went to classes and passed tests and background checks "kinda dumb". Generally if you go thru all that, it is becuase you feel you have a fairly good reason.

    Whens the last time any of you had a gun put to there face?
    It has been some years, but it has happened, more than once. That is part of why I carry, because I know from personal experience that **** happens.

    I've put myself in those situations, a gun on my end would just have escalated the whole mess.
    You've PUT yourself in those situations? I'm not sure what that means... you mean hypothetically?
    Well, having been on the wrong end of a gun for real, I prefer being armed thank you.

    As for the poster with the .45 comment. If a perp has a weapon drawn on me, and mines in my holster concealed, what are the chances he's going to let me pull, sight and fire? Unlikely.
    Context and circumstances. Awareness is key in all self-defense situations.
    For instance, two probable-muggers tried to set me up for a "pincer" move. This is where one gets your attention from the front, while the other smokes you from behind. When the first guy exhibited body language and actions that made me uncomfortable, I moved to the side when he was still at a distance, and got a look behind me --- and I saw his partner coming up from behind. Moving to a position where I could see both at once, I put my hand on my firearm. They stopped, looked at each other... and quickly left the area.
    That's an example of awareness and pre-emptive action, staying ahead of the curve...but IF they were armed (and I expect they were) and I was NOT, they might have started something even after I "got off the X". Taking a fighting stance or pulling a knife might not have had the same deterrent value.

    I am an Armed Security Guard, I'm quite aware (state licensed) of when you can and can't pull a gun. I've seen people who have guns, reach for them before the situation played out far enough for them to legally draw. They get arrested and processed.
    Nice to meet ya, I'm an ex-cop.
    A lot of that depends on how self-defense-friendly your state's laws are. My state is very friendly to upstanding citizens defending themself.
    Last edited by Goshin; 01-30-10 at 10:59 PM.

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    Re: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

    As an afterward, there's nothing wrong with having options.

    I have martial arts training and combatives experience, and while I'm getting a bit old I'm not adverse to going HTH if it seems called for. There's an OC spray on my keyring in case I feel the need to "equalize" the situation a bit.

    I also carry a knife, and a gun, daily. I like having multiple options as to force level.

    But come down to it, I don't like being unarmed. The world is not a safe place, and criminals tend to use weapons. Bottom line, for me.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

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    Re: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I shot an unarmed mugger one time-he and his partner jumped me in an alley and started beating on me when I put a 9mm through his stomach, blowing out his rectum. I wasn't even arrested.
    Good for you. Let me buy you a Beer sometime.
    "Don't be particular bout nothin, but the company you keep"

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    Re: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    But come down to it, I don't like being unarmed. The world is not a safe place, and criminals tend to use weapons. Bottom line, for me.
    That's great, for You! As you stated clearly, you are an ex-cop, I'm sure you have a Tremendous amount of training and real-world experience.

    In my state, a concealed pistol license, is paperwork. There is no training, or class. It is just a form with an application fee.

    Sheesh, its hard to take anyone in this thread seriously, I'm not advocating that guns should be restricted at all, merely, that all options should be considered, and that carrying concealed (for me) is a last resort, generally done when I feel there is a direct threat against me, and find it necessary to carry. Just because "something" could happen, doesn't strike me as good enough to walk around crowded streets (imho, in a large city, makes a gun next to useless, compared to other alternative options), armed.

    I'm also tired of countless citizens, who feel empowered by guns. When they pull it on a hardened criminal, they're just as likely to get it snatched from there hand. What I'm really getting on about, is the people I've seen with permits, didn't take it as serious as they should have, and with enough thought, might have reconsidered.

    As for referencing getting a gun pulled on me, its happened, my gun, was out of easy reach at the time and concealed. Had I made a move for it, I could have been shot, or someone next to me. In the end, 10 bucks out of my wallet, and the guy walks. Police caught him 15 blocks over. Guns, escalate any situation to life threatening, sometimes its just not worth it.

    Sure its a right, and your free to exercise it. I just question, whether the average person who chooses to carry concealed, actually needs to. Heh, am I the only person raising the question of the liability (both criminal and civil) that you put yourself in when you carry.

  9. #359
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    Re: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Sane View Post
    That's great, for You! As you stated clearly, you are an ex-cop, I'm sure you have a Tremendous amount of training and real-world experience.
    Thank you. It has also been my pleasure to work with a lot of people who were simply citizens, with no military or police background, who had carry permits and wished to upgrade their skills.

    More on that below...

    In my state, a concealed pistol license, is paperwork. There is no training, or class. It is just a form with an application fee.
    In my state, you have to take a class which covers legal and liability aspects, and you have to go to the range and demonstrate that you can shoot with reasonable accuracy and handle your weapon safely.


    Sheesh, its hard to take anyone in this thread seriously, I'm not advocating that guns should be restricted at all, merely, that all options should be considered, and that carrying concealed (for me) is a last resort, generally done when I feel there is a direct threat against me, and find it necessary to carry. Just because "something" could happen, doesn't strike me as good enough to walk around crowded streets (imho, in a large city, makes a gun next to useless, compared to other alternative options), armed.
    Let's look at that "something" that could happen.
    Do you wear a seatbelt? Are you expecting to crash? No? Then why wear one, other than the law... because if you are in an unexpected crash and don't have one on, the consequences could be disasterous, no matter how unlikely a crash might seem as you're driving along listening to the radio.
    Sometimes the severity of the consequences makes certain precautions worthwhile. Heathcare insurance, for example...you're 22 years old, you said elsewhere. You probably don't need heathcare insurance...but if you get seriously hurt and are hospitalized, you could be in debt for $100,000 if you're uninsured. See my point?



    I'm also tired of countless citizens, who feel empowered by guns. When they pull it on a hardened criminal, they're just as likely to get it snatched from there hand. What I'm really getting on about, is the people I've seen with permits, didn't take it as serious as they should have, and with enough thought, might have reconsidered.
    As I've said, I've worked with lots of Ordinary Citizens (tm) who were CCW permit holders. Many of them took it all quite seriously and were seeking to upgrade their skills. Some were already first-rate shooters and were looking to get even better.
    Frankly, I think a lot of armed citizens compare favorably with most police officers. A lot of cops I knew were poor gunhandlers; I saw several do some very unsafe things with their sidearms. Most cops I knew were not nearly as keen on shelling out their own money and time for professional training to upgrade their skills, as many of the armed citizens I've associated with. Many cops just seemed to think "well, I've been to the academy, that's good enough." (Um, it's okay but not that great.)

    By the way, if just snatching a gun away from someone is so easy, then just snatch it back. Hint: it isn't that easy in most cases.

    In short, my experience with permit-holding citizens has been very positive, and at forty-something years old I'm drawing on a pretty large pool of experiences. (one of the few positives about getting older, lol.)

    As for referencing getting a gun pulled on me, its happened, my gun, was out of easy reach at the time and concealed. Had I made a move for it, I could have been shot, or someone next to me. In the end, 10 bucks out of my wallet, and the guy walks. Police caught him 15 blocks over. Guns, escalate any situation to life threatening, sometimes its just not worth it.
    Again, I refer to awareness and making the right moves to stay ahead of the curve, something I teach in all my SD classes. While not all situations are best solved by gunplay, again, when you need a gun you probably need it bad. There are far worse things than robbers out there, and someone runs afoul of them every day. "Someone" could be "you" some day.


    Sure its a right, and your free to exercise it. I just question, whether the average person who chooses to carry concealed, actually needs to. Heh, am I the only person raising the question of the liability (both criminal and civil) that you put yourself in when you carry.
    It isn't my business, or your business, to decide for someone whether carrying is a good idea for them and their circumstances. Each person makes that choice. Most of those I know, who went to the bother of the classes and etc getting a CCW, had what they considered adequate reasons. If you pay attention in class when they're covering legal issues and cautions, and apply common sense and act morally, you're not likely to end up in trouble.

    Concealed-carry permit holders are, as a subclass of people, far more law-abiding than the general population. There are plenty of stats to prove it, in example:


    Concealed carry in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    North Carolina reports only 0.2% of their 263,102 holders had their license revoked in the 10 years since they have adopted the law.[61]

    Permit holders are a remarkably law-abiding subclass of the population. Florida, which has issued over 1,408,907 permits in twenty one years, has revoked only 166 for a "crime after licensure involving a firearm," and fewer than 4,500 permits for any reason.[62]
    Your concerns about CCW's do not appear to be supported by available data.

    Last but not least, this is a free country: you make your choices and you live with the consequences. If you don't feel the need to carry, or don't think it is a good choice for you, then don't carry. I think, though, that you might realize now that you ought to show just a smidge more respect for those who do choose to exercise that right, since the evidence says that they rarely ever get themselves into the kinds of trouble you're attributing to them.
    Last edited by Goshin; 01-31-10 at 12:12 AM.

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    Re: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post

    Your concerns about CCW's do not appear to be supported by available data.
    Last but not least, this is a free country: you make your choices and you live with the consequences. If you don't feel the need to carry, or don't think it is a good choice for you, then don't carry. I think, though, that you might realize now that you ought to show just a smidge more respect for those who do choose to exercise that right, since the evidence says that they rarely ever get themselves into the kinds of trouble you're attributing to them.
    I havn't shown anyone, any disrespect. Disagreeing isn't a sign of disrespect, nor is stating facts from my own personal life experiences involving guns, and gun owners. Guess we can agree to disagree, I've stated my opinion thoroughly. Nothing more to add.

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