View Poll Results: Do you have a conceal and carry permit?

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  • Yes I do

    21 29.17%
  • No I do not

    38 52.78%
  • I don't have one yet, but I'm working on it

    9 12.50%
  • I don't understand the question - can you type slower?

    4 5.56%
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Thread: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

  1. #221
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    Re: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    I am not comparing it to anything. Not everyone lives in a big city. I wouldn't.
    That does not change the fact you said "Not a farming community at all. Mostly service and manufacturing. So I guess it is like the rest of the country." when in fact this is not true at all.

    As I said, it flies in the face of any kind of logic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  2. #222
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    Re: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    That does not change the fact you said "Not a farming community at all. Mostly service and manufacturing. So I guess it is like the rest of the country." when in fact this is not true at all.

    As I said, it flies in the face of any kind of logic.
    The rest of the country is not just big cities. My city is just like the rest of the country, only a smaller slice of it. Most cities are service and manufacturing just like my city..
    Last edited by Dirty Harry; 01-23-10 at 01:22 PM.

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    Caution Re: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

    I had a permit for several years, but there is so many restrictions of places your not permitted to enter with a concealed weapon and the only way that you could use a gun to protect yourself would be if there is absolutely no way that you could escape the situation if a person was threatening your life or a loved one. Also, I decided that I have such a short temper that there was a possibility I may use the weapon stupidly. In this state, you can have a gun in your automobile if it is visible when a law enforcement officer approaches your vehicle. I spent some time out West (Utah) where it was permitted for you to carry your handgun in a holster on your belt. There were very few people that took advantage of this privilege. There seem to be less crime there than other places I don't know if it's for that reason.

  4. #224
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    Re: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    The rest of the country is not just big cities. My city is just like the rest of the country, only a smaller slice of it. Most cities are service and manufacturing just like my city..
    How many places have you lived? It could not be allot with that kind of a statement. Your small "slice" of city if nothing like Gary Indiana, Santa Rosa California, Lawton Oklahoma or Fort Lauderdale Florida etc.

    I have lived all across this country and it is most definitely not the same in each place.

    Each location has it's own racial makeup, crime statistics, tax base etc. I am certain your "slice" is nothing like Ford Heights Illinois (poorest city in the nation.) All these things combine to make each city, village or town different in it's own way.

    Your statement makes no sense at all.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 01-23-10 at 02:28 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  5. #225
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    Re: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    How many places have you lived? It could not be allot with that kind of a statement. Your small "slice" of city if nothing like Gary Indiana, Santa Rosa California, Lawton Oklahoma or Fort Lauderdale Florida etc.

    I have lived all across this country and it is most definitely not the same in each place.

    Each location has it's own racial makeup, crime statistics, tax base etc. I an certain your "slice" is nothing like Ford Heights Illinois (poorest city in the nation.) All these things combine to make each city, village or town different in it's own way.

    Your statement makes no sense at all.
    My city is like most cities because it is not an agriculture town but relies on the service industry and manufacturing. Don't you get it? He stated my town was not like most because it was a farm town. It isn't.

  6. #226
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    Re: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    My city is like most cities because it is not an agriculture town but relies on the service industry and manufacturing. Don't you get it? He stated my town was not like most because it was a farm town. It isn't.
    Being like most is not what you said, but I see your point.

    OK.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  7. #227
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    Re: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    He was a law abiding citizen until he got pissed off. Most people are law abiding citizens right up to the point where they commit a crime. You are right that guns don't turn people into criminals. It is just a tool for them.
    Like the guy that shot his wife and then himself this week in Hugo Minn. He had never broken the law before. The gun he used was just a tool. Having a gun in the house did not make his wife safer in this case.

    Ah, you're going with the old "having guns makes law abiding people more likely to go berserk and kill" argument, with a few anecdotes presented as evidence.

    The stats do not support that position at all; to the contrary in fact.

    Concealed carry in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    North Carolina reports only 0.2% of their 263,102 holders had their license revoked in the 10 years since they have adopted the law.[61]

    Permit holders are a remarkably law-abiding subclass of the population. Florida, which has issued over 1,408,907 permits in twenty one years, has revoked only 166 for a "crime after licensure involving a firearm," and fewer than 4,500 permits for any reason.[62]
    More Guns, Less Crime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Last edited by Goshin; 01-23-10 at 03:14 PM.

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  8. #228
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    Re: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    These statistics seem to be made up to me. This isn't the country I know. I live in a town of about 20,000 people. People do not carry here and there is virtually no crime. There probably hasn't been a case of a gun being used for defence since the 1950s.
    I guess if I ever felt the need to carry a gun to feel safe I would move. I do however keep a shotgun by my bed.

    I'm glad you feel safe in your community. I presume you are aware there are other communities that are not so safe, and that even "safe" places can have troubles.

    I live in a rural area about fifteen miles from a smallish city. Last year we had a serial killer strike repeatedly in this area, one of his victims was someone I knew who lived only a couple miles up the road.

    While there is some controversy over Kleck's numbers, it is scientific and statistical fact that guns are used defensively many times more often than they are used to murder. Deny it if you wish, but it is true.

    Number Of Protective Uses Of Firearms In U.S: Projected at a minimum of 2.5 million cases annually, equal to 1% of total U.S. population each year. Criminal assailants are killed by their victims or others in only about 0.1%, and wounded in only about 1.0% of incidents as described above. Most such crimes are prevented by mere presence of a firearm in the hands of an intended victim.(Dr. Gary Kleck, PhD, Florida State University, Targeting Guns, 1998)

    A 1993 Gallup Poll study (hardly a conservative partisan group) found a likely annual rate of defensive gun use (DGU) of 777,153 per year in the US.
    An LA Times 1994 study found an implied national DGU of 3,609,682.

    National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS).

    Data from the NCVS imply that each year there are only about 68,000 defensive uses of guns in connection with assaults and robberies, [16] or about 80,000 to 82,000 if one adds in uses linked with household burglaries. [17] These figures are less than one ninth of the estimates implied by the results of at least thirteen other surveys, summarized in Table 1, most of which have been previously reported. [18] The NCVS estimates imply that about 0.09 of 1% of U.S. households experience a defensive gun use (DGU) in any one year, compared to the Mauser survey's estimate of 3.79% of households over a five year period, or about 0.76% in any one year, assuming an even distribution over the five year period, and no repeat uses. [19]
    The strongest evidence that a measurement is inaccurate is that it is inconsistent with many other independent measurements or observations of the same phenomenon; indeed, some would argue that this is ultimately the only way of knowing that a measurement is wrong. Therefore, one might suppose that the gross inconsistency of the NCVS-based estimates with all other known estimates, each derived from sources with no known flaws even remotely substantial enough to account for nine-to-one, or more, discrepancies, would be sufficient to persuade any serious scholar that the NCVS estimates are unreliable.
    ...The NCVS was not designed to estimate how often people resist crime using a gun. It was designed primarily to estimate national victimization levels; it incidentally happens to include a few self-protection questions which include response categories covering resistance with a gun.

    The Kleck study concluded that there were possibly as many as 2.5 million defensive gun uses per year, many of which involved no shots fired or no one injured, and many of which were not reported:
    The most technically sound estimates presented in Table 2 are those based on the shorter one-year recall period that rely on Rs' first-hand accounts of their own experiences (person-based estimates). These estimates appear in the first two columns. They indicate that each year in the U.S. there are about 2.2 to 2.5 million DGUs of all types by civilians against humans, with about 1.5 to 1.9 million of the incidents involving use of handguns.

    While I doubt the real number is as high as 2.5 million, it is probably far higher than the gov't numbers (82,000). Even if you accept the low-ball figures from the NCVS study, it would mean guns were used for defense about six times as often as for murder. The reality is probably between the two extremes.

    A man threatened my father's life once, in a case of mistaken identity, and only backed off when my father pulled out his pistol. My mother once ran off a burglar by firing a shot into the floor. I backed down a pair of young men who tried to ambush me with a pistol. That's one family over the course of about 30 years. My "anecdotal stats" would be that 3 out of 20 (my extended family) used guns defensively over the course of 30 years, or about 15% in 3 decades. Translated to the national population of 300 million, that would be about 1.5 million uses a year nationally. I think that's probably about average, as it is midway between Kleck's high number and NCVS's low number.

    Guns in the hands of law abiding citizens save lives and stop crime. Period.

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  9. #229
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    Re: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Guns in the hands of law abiding citizens save lives and stop crime. Period.
    Not true. Guns are inanimate objects. Guns don't kill people...... just like they don't save lives. Can't have it both ways.

  10. #230
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    Re: Do you have a conceal and carry license?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    I know. For one thing it's illegal and this is a law abiding town. We are not dumb enough to risk a weapons charge when crime in non-existant. We are a town of hunters and gun owners and the only people carrying here are the police.

    Dear friend, you are mistaken: someone other than the police are packing guns: criminals.

    If a cop isn't around when you need one...

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